鴉PieFedThose who live outside Europe. What are things Europeans are not ready to hear.
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BigFig@lemmy.world
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BigFig@lemmy.world
buy and large Europeans are much more racist than Americans. in america it is not at all uncommon to have a ton of different races (I'm from a small town in Texas and we had a lot of Mexicans, black people, and a couple different Asian races (yes there are different ones)). that's not to say every European is racist and it's not to say that none of us are, but European countries tend to be much more homogeneous than the us and as a result tend to be more racist.
Just to counterpoint: you do know *why*, exactly, it is that the south has more black people than the north, *right*? (Hint: it's not because they were so much more accepting)
my point was more about variety than quantity but yes, I am aware. I also said nothing about the north because I was talking about Europe vs America. though many people refuse to accept it, the vast majority of people in the south are not racist. like anywhere we do have some people who are but they hold no power or respect.
Europe is not as different from the US as it likes to pretend, especially politically.
Racism is not a unique or exceptionally American phenomenon, and the things I've heard from otherwise progressive Europeans can fucking curdle milk equal or in excess to what people in my ultra-rural ultra-conservative home region of the US can say.
I've had good friends who were Europeans studying here, and they can definitely be very insensitive and racist. What makes the two flavors of racism different to me is American racism is typically very confrontational, tribalistic. White man calling a black man a slur, and there's something cavalier about it, maybe even humorous on the part of the racist.
Europeans have a much more "it is the way it is" attitude. I've heard friends talk very disparagingly about interracial couples, or blacks in general, and the attitude is less "hate for hate's sake" but instead "it is the wrong way to be and my way is correct". Fascinatingly, when you point out the bigotry, my friends have typically refused to accept their bias (at best), and will deny they're racist.
I've heard Europeans call Turks 'filthy' and 'roaches' and Africans 'monkeys'. And don't get me started on the things said about the Romani.
I don't think there's a difference in how tribalistic or vicious it is.
Weird. I haven't.
Making sure I'm reading this right...I know a guy who claims he isn't sexist but that it is OK to pay women less because they aren't as good at some things as men. So in his mind, it isn't sexist to pay women less or even claim they should be paid less - even though it is.
Is that similar to what you're saying?
Not a bad way of comparing it tbh
Did you type 'females' instead of 'women' for the sake of the argument or did you get caught up in it as well?
Guess I got caught in it. Just looked it up and didn't realize until now that female wasn't an acceptable word to use. TIL. Thanks!
The easy way to understand and remember is that "female" is an adjective the vast majority of the time, and it's usually misogynists and incels using it as a noun.
While we're on the topic, I think "black people" is the preferred term (in general it's adjectives over nouns, like "gay people" vs "gays")
Hey fair enough. I use whites so I tend to use the same kind of term in the other direction, too. I don't mean anything insulting by it
I've heard people of all types use the word 'blacks' I think it's a regional thing.
It’s more likely a field thing. People who work in fields highly dedicated to equity (esp. those working in healthcare) are especially concerned with their language and so create style guides that people outside those fields have gleaned from.
Example: - National Institutes of Health - American Heart Association - US National Archive
And even then the European countries that feel they're ahead of the rest tackling racism it's usually only the urban university educated talking with their fingers in their ears ignoring the majority of the rest of their country.
The things I've heard far too many Europeans of various nationalities say about MENA, Desi, Turkish, and Romani folk just... makes my skin crawl.
America has a deep racism problem, and it is both right and necessary to acknowledge it. But those who pretend that Europe doesn't have a deep racism problem are either not paying attention or in denial - especially considering recent political developments.
Very true
Just ask a Mexican person what it’s like to travel to Spain
Ask a Spanish or Portuguese person what it's like to travel to France or Belgium. Italians used to face racism in other European countries a few generations ago: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
I have been surprised by how racist many Brits are
sexist too.
Definitely agree on the "Europe is just racist in a different way." Outside of the obvious ones (like Middle East & Africa), I'd also add racism/xenophobia against "Eastern" Europe (like Poland), which might surprise Americans because they're still white.
Europeans are just as susceptible to racism as Americans.
There was an Old sub reddit of people from the Balkans shitting on everyone.
Until a westoid posted and they all piled on them.
Their racism puts ours to shame. Like an old wine. They have cultivated their strain of racism since before America was a thought.
Can't compete lol
Westoid
God I miss this level of Shitposting
No shit,
HitlerSherlock. ;)That's elementary, my dear
ChurchillWatson.This. So many Europeans act with superiority because "at least we don't shoot kill them" when looking at US police brutality, but e.g. we ignore how those cops in US mostly use Glocks made in Austria, making us part of the problem (and making a profit out of it). Or if we look at the deaths numbers, we ignore the many deaths the "protection" of our borders cause.
I agree with you but Austria selling small arms is really the least toxic thing austria does.
Their bullshit in Romania and all that corruption is disgusting. Did Romania ever get shengen?
What did they have to whore for Austria vote?
Yes they did actually. 4 days ago :)
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I've seen white europeans be like "I've never encountered any racism in europe!" Well that is because you are white
White doesn't really have the same connotations in europe. There's sadly plenty of racism, but the skin tone isn't the main discriminator.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Dogs_or_Italians_Allowed
Yep. I thought I knew about racism, and then I read some comments on some hearts of iron subreddit about Romani.
Based on the comments it looks like Europeans weren't ready to hear some of these things. 😉 Let me pile on...
Innovation in Europe is stiffled due to a risk-averse culture, complex regulatory environments, fragmented markets across different countries, limited access to venture capital, and a tendency for established companies to be less receptive to new ideas from startups, making it harder for innovative companies to scale up (compared to the US).
Regulations are written in the blood of the victims.
And other regulations are written by the lobbyists of big companies.
Here in Germany we have so many regulations that don't help anyone, except big companies who can circumvent or deal with them.
I don't want to reduce environmental or worker protection, but we need to simplify a lot of regulations so that the time to do the paperwork is reduced, one of the solutions should be good digitalisation.
Some are, sure. I think most on Lemmy support those kinds. While I enjoy the effects, USB-C mandates aren’t written in blood, and I suspect the majority of regulations are of that variety.
The USB-C mandate is a direct result of it being actively ignored by Apple. The way to universal chargers, first through micro USB and then USB C was also championed by the EU but only as a loose industry agreement or so. Definitely not enough to reign in Apple which is why it was now made mandatory.
The main motivation was to reduce electronic waste due to every device having a different charger and often not even standardising in the same company.
I support the mandate. Just pointing out that the whole “blood of victims” thing, while true of *some very important* regulations, is nonsense for most of them. There were no victims of lightning ports. There was no blood involved in generic Champagne being called Sparkling Wine.
at least the fragmented markets, limited venture capital and closed-mindedness of established compagnies are relatively well known and recognised, wouldn't say Europeans aren't ready to hear it
I was actually thinking the first two were the more detrimental, and are the reason behind lack of VC and closed minded companies. The fragmented markets is irritating, but overcomeable.
yeah I think I'd agree with that, hut I'm risk-averse myself so can't go pointing blame at others
The opposite could maybe be said of the US: due to our crazy-pants lack of financial security, people are willing to do risky things, which, when successful, can drive innovation. I grew up in this culture, so it doesn't make me uncomfortable, but understand it isn't for everyone.
Start-ups in the US benefit from an immediate market of 400 million people. The EU should be able to enjoy a similar benefit but you are right about the red tape. Obviously Brexit in the UK was a total anathema to that as well.
From what J can see innovation is happening just fine
Tell me one big innovation of the last 30 years where Europe is leading
na-euv
Doesn't really count if you have to google it first to know what it is, that's not what will save the European economy in the future. In the mean time other regions of the world dominate battery technology, battery-electric vehicles, handheld devices, social media, semiconductor technology, quantum computing, and basically the whole internet
Are you saying that semiconductors and chipset manufacturing is not a critical domain today?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umicore
Ironic as you are using a Lemmy instance based in Austria
A few other companies in the fields you mentioned: - Spotify - SAP - Volkswagen - BMW
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/20-most-valuable-european-tech-221145055.html
You keep using your phone, and ignoring what tech allows all modern computers to exist. Tech isn't a major industry, right?
Rather have stifled innovation than innovation running rampant like what the US is doing.
With stifled innovation you only get through if you have an actual good idea instead of just an idea that makes money.
Ain't no way you gonna put all of Europe into that statement. You do understand that each country have their own system, policies and regulatory laws?
The problem here is that what you're saying is maybe true for a handful of countries while completely false and inaccurate for a handful of others.
We're not one single entity. Your statement is just not accurate as a whole.
Yea my healthcare one quickly got down voted. Someone used GPT to try to disprove it. I'm even a big propilonent of public healthcare, but you can't assume it is perfect.
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yall need to get off the high horse and take a joke sometimes. you terrorized the entire world via colonization for hundreds of years through modern day, if people harmlessly stereotype the german or french, make fun of british people, or tease the dutch language, yall can handle it
for context, im american. we get bullied all the time, and while not all americans are fat and stupid, the combination of that many are and that we've terrorized the world plenty make me think a lil teasing is fair
Yes it's perfectly fair and most of us don't mind.
I think the issue, especially on Reddit, was the over-representation of US Americans compared to the other countries.
It gets old quite fast to get called a "surrender monkey" or a Nazi on a regular basis in a space where most of the audience is on the other side and I'm not even French or German.
On Lemmy it's probably a bit more balanced.
I guess let’s see what happens with the Germany elections in February because that nazi line may start to ring true.
Does the Trump election gives everyone the right to call all US citizens convicted felons?
Certainly gives everyone the right to call us a country of idiots.
Just opened a thread on [email protected] about that, the polls look okay. The non far-right parties should be able to create a coalition.
Well you sound fat and stupid.
As someone who isn’t a European, most of these comments are yanks being loudly wrong about something and the saying “see the europeans weren’t ready to hear it” when someone points out how stupid the thing they said was.
I will say the Americans not ready to hear post was pretty much everything I complain about all the time. I don't think these posts are good in any way. It's just slinging shit for no reason with no productive conversation.
Specifics?
You guys should start bulking up your militaries. At best, the US will completely abandon you, and I really don't want to think about worst-case scenario as I live in the US.
Already happening, keep up
You write "attack you for water/oil" weird. Or did I write the quiet-part worst case out loud?
i dont get this comment, at the hypothetical best case scenario wouldnt abandoning be "better" than attacked for oil? therefore attacked for oil not being the best case scenario?
Unlikely. The cost/benefit doesn't work for an assault on the EU. Most countries in the EU have to import oil and gas (Norway being a notable exception), which is why cutting off gas from Russia has been such a big deal. The cost of invading wouldn't be offset by the oil gains unless oil got *really* scarce. A smarter move--if we had a president that didn't give a fuck about our European allies--would be abandoning NATO, stop selling arms to EU members, and then buy oil and gas from Russia at a discount while Russia invades EU countries. (If, say, China didn't beat this entirely hypothetical US president to the punch.) As far as water goes, it would be cheaper to built massive desalination plants than it would be to move water by supertanker.
'Course, climate change is going to render most of this moot in 50 years or so.
Europe has very little in the way of oil reserves. Norway has the most at 7 billion barrels. Greenland has 18. Saudi Arabia 267 billion. Venezuela 300 billion. If I was Venezuelan I'd be sweating pretty hard right now.
Venezuelan oil is “dirty” IIRC. Apparently it’s good for bunker fuel (imagine the dirtiest sludge ever used for pushing giant ships around the ocean and you’ve got a good idea of bunker fuel), but requires significantly more refining than Saudi or US crude oil. So yay for Venezuela, but also the US would rather just replace the government with the help of that three-letter agency that shall not be named and deal with someone who went to an Ivy but is “Venezuelan enough”.
I think Europe can defend itself, it's not useless most countries have some military
The US has ever been a fickle bed fellow.
Too many people smoke in Europe and it's too widely accepted.
Coming from northern Europe, we are usually surprised to see so many smokers when we vacation in the more southern parts of Europe. It used to be common here too, growing up in the 90s. But it just stopped. Very rarely do I see anyone with a cigarette, even outdoors. Cigarette butts are a rare find on the ground.
I'm happy about it. I hate smoking. But the snuff pandemic has to stop too. Many of my friends use it, and have for decades. I don't understand why people don't just choose not to put toxins in their body. So stupid. And they even pay to do it, too. A significant amount of money. So mf dumb.
It's because it's addictive.
I never tried cigarettes nor snuff. Spoiler: I didn't get addicted, because I *chose not to* put it in my body.
Wow, that's so amazing.
No one has ever offered you cocaine have they :|
Nope. And you could probably guess what I'd say, were I offered. 😌
Depends on the country.
In Belgium, smoking is almost banned everywhere. But when I went to Greece, it was weird seeing so many smokers at restaurants.
Believe it or not, it was way worse and it's getting better. The horrors of even 10 years ago, man. Smoke everywhere, cigarette butts all over the place, all the surfaces are covered in yellow grime.
I am smokin' hot, it's true.
Europeans like to pretend they're innocent, but they are the benefactors of most the damaging empires to have ever existed. They colonized nearly the entire world, extracting value from other cultures while destroying them. They pulled out once it was financially wise, keeping the wealth they extracted and leaving behind the destruction they created. They then blame everyone else for their issues while bragging about how awesome the EU is while overlooking that the EU is only possible due to the wealth they stole from everyone else. Europe likes to discuss that they had their social hardship discussing WWII, but the origin and impact of WWII there was internal to Europe. Had Europe been subject to colonization from elsewhere, it would be just as much a mess as other places. Look at the situation in former Soviet Pact countries that were practically colonized by Russia for maybe half a century. Now imagine if instead of half a century, it was hundreds of years and 5 times as brutal.
Fun fact: The term "colony" comes from Christopher Colombus' name, which is Spanish is Cristobal Colon. Even the term colonization derives from a European.Apparently, that was incorrect.tl;dr: Europe got to where it is by destroying the rest of the world while blaming the rest of the world for their issues. Their critique of USA is merely a distraction from their own responsibility.
Yeah I think they're aware of colonisation
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lol and what utopia do you hail from? bet it's full of assholes and bastards too
I think that's the point. Every country/culture/society has its own problems and it is quite grating when individuals from various countries act like their country's problems aren't as bad as everyone else's or that their excuses are valid but no one else's is.
NGL, it sounds like your describing Americans, sorry!
Which country did you live in?
American are a lot more willing to criticize our ruling regime and half of us talk about how us is doing crimes actively... We know where out daddies obtained their capital.
The same can't be said about Germans for example or French.
Russians?
You mean the French who criticize their government all day long for the past hundred years?
Germans? Germans talk about the Nazi crimes every other year in history class. They'll read at least two books in lit handling the Nazis and the fallout. They have holocaust memorials big and small in every city. German government is up Israel's ass because they're jews. Every video game that could even have a slight chance of glorifying Nazis is banned. When Coca Cola wanted to bring back Fanta like it was made "in the good old days" they conjured a huge shit storm, had to pull everything and issue an apology. Nazis are still being prosecuted and sentenced today. Every so often a new big book or movie is released to big media fanfare that deals with Nazi history.
Maybe you're talking about other colonisation efforts and genocides. They are also actively being acknowledged by government and media alike. They do get lost in this little war that completely shaped the whole world for the next 100 and probably more years.
The French love to riot and protest the govt. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_France.
The British frequently review and criticise it's past actions https://www.jstor.org/stable/2637720
Of course, we also acknowledge the Norman and Roman invasions of Britain, but it happened so long ago we don't expect the Italians or French to apologise about it now..
Saying that with a straight face while a outright fascist is coming into power and every us billionaire is stepping in line to kiss their ring while the working class is doing nothing of importance. USians must be the most submissive culture in the world while actually thinking it's the most revolutionary.
*Really* though?
This describes all of us. Remember class solidarity !
Ah an aussie. Have clean hands do you? No racism there?
A stolen generation and a whole lot more I'm sad to say
Sounds like America
I'm not European, but do go off
I don't think Columbus was the origin of the word "colony"
https://www.etymonline.com/word/colony#etymonline_v_15843
It came from Latin so the claim is still right, but for the wrong reasons
I guess Finland isn't European by your description then 🤷🏻♂️
We don't believe in generational sin, forced upon you because your grandparents did something bad either.
Lol the downvote brigade is here +11/-7 and on my other comment too, if I'm so wrong tell me why!
I will believe this when the British museum, the Louvre, etc are devoid of stolen (or *very* unfairly "purchased") artifacts from former colonies. Generational responsibility may not be a thing, but institutional abuses spanning centuries that persist into the current day absolutely are.
Fair enough, but it's quite far away from enslaving and murdering.
Edit: I see the difference between stealing versus raping, enslaving and murder. Not saying stealing is right, but there is more than a nuance to it lol.
Countries built their generational wealth on the backs of slaves though. Look at how, for instance, Belgium enriched itself though the horrific abuses in the Congo. While it's true that no one alive was directly responsible, they still benefit from it.
It's the trophies from the enslavement and murder. They didn't get to keep the people, but they did keep souvenirs.
like serial killer trophies. They just cant help themselves.
Ignoring the past doesn't mean it didn't happen, or that it has no bearing on the present. "Somebody else did it so the generational inequity is fine actually" is a terrible argument.
Which is not what I said. At all.
Putting words in other peoples mouth is not as good as you think it is.
Your reply was a nonsequitur as well
In whzt way is it a non sequitur ?
Agreed, but the sad sick thing is that as time goes on, the crime really does go away-- or any hope of it being remedied does. Justice delayed really is justice denied.
The word colony comes from the Latin word colonia. I guess you could say the Romans were "European colonizers" but their socioeconomic systems were fundamentally different from modern Europe.
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The rest of your comment is great, but it would have taken a five-second check on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/colony to make sure you got your etymology right (which you didn't)
Had my Spanish brother in law over for the holidays. He says spanish schools teach that the spaniards were trying to civilize the natives and bring them a better life. And sure, some things went wrong, but that columbus should be seen as a hero. He strongly beleives it. I was floored. I thought that stuff was pretty settled. I showed him some info on the genocide of Hispanola, and he said he'd never seen that before, but that we cant judge what happened back then by todays standrads, and that the word genocide hadnt even been invented back then, and that method of conflict was normal back then.
There was a recent call in Barcelona to take down the Columbus statue, at least as early as 2016 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/27/call-to-topple-christopher-columbus-statue-from-its-barcelona-perch)
I live in Barcelona, and Colombus and colonization is definitely not a popular topic: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/12/spain-leftist-columbus-day-celebrations
On the other hand, Spain can still be quite racist, football players being a good example (https://www.ft.com/content/6801c79a-6325-4a2a-9d5d-1d99b37920ab, https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20240610-fans-get-8-months-jail-for-racism-targeting-real-madrid-s-vinicius)
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Idolizing the past (and long gone) 'grandeur' of some European countries is not the best way to prepare for the future.
edit: as a disclaimer, I'm European from one of those once important countries.
Romanticizing "past greatness" seems to always involve some very shit politics. It's more obvious in these old empires, but it exists in more subtle forms elsewhere, too.
I was specifically talking about euros, but I guess a certain US president gets a honourable mention for his campaign slogan
Knackered, as t'were?
Such an underrated comment
Europeans are really fucking racist. Asians and Jews are cool and yet yall are really weird about them. and don't get me started on how badly Islam is vilified...
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Earned their stripes denying the English parasites
Lol, get the Irish started on the Travelers, and it'll come out for them, too. The amount of times I hear "They're knackers, they're just scumbags," or similar when one of them shows up was pretty surprising, initially.
If you want to hear a bigoted rant, get a French person talking about the Spanish.
Now that's news, I don't think I ever heard something bad about the spanish from a fellow french
I've heard it a few times, from young and old, took me back I must say. A lot of it was when I was making a day trip from Biarritz to Bilbao, by train and bus. Yikes, I thought you guys got along ok! Apparently not.
Maybe when nearing the border it gets shittier
Ask them about the English
No way, lol! I always make it very clear, je viens de nouvelle zelande. And I'm not still upset about that terrorist attack by your spies...
Asians are racist af even against other Asians
cool you can post that in the next thread about things the sinophere isn't ready to hear
I'm not surprised, they have to live with them!
Although in fairness a lot of it is anti Japanese hate, and that was some heinous shit that went down in the 40s, even by WWII standards.
Some of the most racist people I've met are Asian. My neighbor is a Filipino Trump supporter who was patrolling the property with a concealed gun during the BLM protests
And that justifies anything?
*and* racist
damn you got upset at me saying Asians are cool? what a clown
Also "Gypsies." Europeans aren't fans.
That always blows my mind. They get more hate than the jews even from some of the most tolerant Europeans.
It's true. I would extend this to the world, though. The world is generally fucking racist
Islam is a religion, not a race. It's a set of ideas. I don't think attacking the religion is morally wrong, as long as you don't attack the races that commonly practice it.
Pedo Worship do be like that
What is this about ?
The main daddy married then raped a child aisha. Wikipedia has a decent write up around it.\
Instead of admitting that this is fucked up bullshit they go around explaining how that's just things were back then... Where did we hear this before, looking at these rock stars that idiots are still explaining away. Or go straight into meltdown mode.
I guess because their funny book said it and it is about their pedo daddy, we can't point out this is pedophilia and it should not be justified.
You seriously never met a racist Asian?
are you stupid? what makes you think i said that
You called out one group for being racist and said another was cool as if they are not also really racist
Of course he has, fuck's lying or stupid
try reading what i wrote again you fucking moron
...hmmmm....apparently it's "stupid"
Nobody is "weird" about Asians or Jews where I live, that I know of. I'm even half west-Asian myself. Nobody had been weird about it to me, ever. I was always met with positivity regarding my heritage. Surprised to see you say this, to be honest.
middle eastern person says on internet that they haven't experienced racism, must mean there's no racism
Not what I wrote at all if you pay close attention but okay.
Asians are pretty based ngl. I know plenty of muslims who are cool, but many tend not to be cool when/if they grow in number
Yes they are, and the USA just re-elected someone who tried to institute a Muslim ban.
who gives a shit about the US?
Tu quoque.
Europe likes to pretend it isn't racist because its cops don't beat up black people (for the most part). US racisim, OTOH, is on full public display. This doesn't make one better than the other.
That might have been true twenty years ago when the racist political parties were fringe groups with a few % of the vote share in most countries. Now that they're frequently getting 20 or 30 something % if not winning elections outright I don't think many people still hold the illusion that there aren't a lot of racists in Europe.
Dude... Have you met Asian & Jewish people?? They're racist as f#*k 🤷🏽♀️ What I'm saying is: Racism is everywhere.
Edit: Added the end bit.
what makes you think i said otherwise?
European racism is out of control to the point of cringe. The new world cannot hold a candle to you.
Here is a quick example. Netflix released a Norwegian movie called "Christmas as Usual" (translated). It essentially takes the concept of the American 1967 film "Guess Who's Coming To Dinner", moves it to Norway and gives it a holiday twist. According to Netflix, this 2023 film was in the Top 10 in thirty countries. How? How is a movie concept from America's peak civil rights battles era working for you in 2023?
My wife is European and my largest clients are European with European staff and the abundance of casual racism is hard for myself and my staff to handle. Don't get me started on my family in-law.
EDIT: Europeans were definitely not ready to hear this one. LOL
Agreed. We have been sold xenophobia by our politicians and media for longer than America has existed.
Your point really doesn't land. Netflix released a movie? Okay... And?
Honest to God slavery is going on and this chuckle fuck is worried about Netflix...
Makes more sense with this context.
I still don't get it. Why is a movie's success with an anti-racist trope an indicator of racism?
Because it should be a non-issue and not an impactful or driving feature of the film.
That feature of the film moved the status quo in 1967. It seemed like that was the point.
If a film were released in America today that pushed interracial marriage as an issue, most would find it racist because it is not a large issue in the greater culture (for the most part).
But I thought the movie only has a similar plot to this 1967 movie, which only featured interracial marriage in a positive light. Does it actually focus on interracial marriage? Because so far nobody has mentioned anything objectable.
Oh damn it's all the way to cringe? Now that's serious lol
Rapidly approaching can’t even status
Wikipedia describes the origin different, so maybe the parallels were not intended:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas_as_Usual
You misunderstand. I don't mean that it was a remake, just that it was the same concept. I think the term is "trope".
The fact that the Norwegian film is based on a true story just makes it all so much worse.
Do you not think the problem is divided equally? Some Europeans tend to not notice casual racism, whereas many Americans tend to see racism where it didn't exist to start with?
I think you are missing the context of the film I used as an example. All the friction and the "comedy" in the film comes from the racism. From the start, it is the point. The taxi driver picks them up from the airport and asks the main character if he is from India. When he replies yes and asks if the driver if he's ever been there, his reply is no but he stopped in Turkey once. The when they arrive the soon to be mother-in-law assumes that the Indian boyfriend is the Taxi driver and the driver is the boyfriend. We are five minutes into the film at this point and it goes downhill from there.
That is just one easy to digest example using media. Our real life daily interactions with the staff from our European clients is a never ending source for more.
So you're saying the film points out the casual racism in an effort to shame the people that do it, even accidentally, and using comedy as the vehicle.
Whereas you just got angry and self righteous at said film
That's what I mean
Nah, your example is just shit and that the new world cannot hold a candle to us is fucking insane, y'all just re-elected Trump ffs. We definitely have a racism problem in European countries as well but our Trumpian party in Germany is currently polling at 19%, which is awful enough but to claim that it's that much better in the US is fucking nuts. I'm in a multiracial marriage myself and while my wife experiences racism in Germany, it's to a somewhat similar extent to the US
Hopefully someday we'll learn to be more like USA police and judicial system.
What does the movie have to do with anything? Your in-law?
The scary part is that this racism is very alive in German politics right now
Looks at the world yeah "European racism is out of control. " 🤡
I thought America was racist until I saw a member of UK Parliament tweeting about a boat of migrants sinking with "Good riddance".
There is still a lot of racism in America. I would not be surprised if I saw that from an American politician.
I definitely don't agree with the sentiment and sinking of boats, but they basically are people coming from another first world country for economic reasons. The type of people willing to cheat the system and pay people smugglers tend to overlap closely with bad people. It's not just simply coming from a place of "racism". I'm more pissed though that people are putting their kids on these dangerous boats and killing them, or overexaggerating the legality and safety of said boats.
A safe and legal option into the UK is the best solution imo
Nobody wants to leave their country without good reason.
And people who come with little boats are not from first world countries. They have much better options. Including legal ones.
Also, "economic reasons" hides a whole fucking lot of pain. Not being able to grow enough food to feed yourself because of years of climate changed-caused drought is an "economic reason" to emigrate.
The question should read
"Americans; give us your baseless opinions of a continent you don't understand, and then get a rage-on in the comments when you are laughed at"
So the same should be said of the other thread about the US. The point of this thread was allow for similar criticisms of EU when people were baselessly shitting on US topics they knew nothing about
It's Lemmy - someone will always find a way to turn any topic into shitting on the US.
Huh. Just the same as when this was asked of Europeans about the states.
Probably.
Americans don't have the market cornered on ignorance.
Yknow I used to see the "stereotypical" American now and then, but that was a long time ago. If anybody has a tendency to act like arrogant cunts these days, it's urban Canadians.
American here, but yes this should have been the question.
It really does feel like online communities get more relentlessly xenophobic when they have more Europeans. It just seems like a lot of you can't get by without mentioning where someone's from. Like, no, someone not seeing the value in retro computing doesn't say anything about "the intelligence of the average Scot." And if you can't tell where they're from, American by default.
Wow that's exactly the kind of thing a Scot would complain about
Really wish @notruescotsman was here right now
States in the southern U.S. are often the butt of the joke too.
Europe as a whole is swinging too far too the right. Y’all all are descending back into Fascism. The recent popularity of the AfD in Germany being a prime example. My own parents - who immigrated from Germany - are deeply disappointed in the direction the country is taking.
Pot, Kettle, Black. The US Republican party is about as, if not more fascist than the German AfD or Austrias FPÖ.
In comparison, the US Democrats are about where European conservatives can be located on the political spectrum.
This does not imply that the current political direction is not problematic.
I think everyone everywhere knows the world over is sliding to the right.
WE all know this. Sadly the average person doesnt care.
Yes, but the US is already there and has a fascist at the helm so I’m assuming your parents immigrated elsewhere or this is a weird comment.
what are you on about?? europe is auth left for sure, look at france and uk. The left is winning even tho people are fed up with open borders policy. You are delusional nutjob at best.
European car manufacturers largely suck ass, I'd rather buy a Hyundai or a damn Nissan than some French or German piece of crap.
Europeans use cars from all car manufacturers. Hardly seen are Chinese brands.
Soooo, yah know.
Wish I could update my 10yo vw golf (which has served me very well) for something not electric. I know, I know, but I’m renting a flat, with a parking space, and only way to charge an electric would be on the street overnight, which is very inconvenient as well as damaging
Edit: but what I meant is you don’t know what you’re talking about
Great, go do the brakes with standard tools, oh wait, you have to use a special "triple square" tool instead of having a standard hex bolt like every other car. And on and on with the bullshit.
It takes me places though. I’m not a mechanic 🤷♂️
It still increases the cost of ownership and issues with reliability.
I am guessing you are from America. I am aware of the figures in terms of reliability, and Japanese manufacturers do a clean sweep in that area, and have done for decades. If that is your only metric, then you may be correct. German cars require religiously regular servicing, and will go wrong if this doesn't happen fastidiously.
The US market get given a different range from many manufacturers. The VW range is objectively quite toned down in style and build quality. I presume because they would piss all over the domestic market if they didn't.
Get into a hyundai or a Nissan in Europe and the difference in build quality, materials, aesthetic design and textures are worlds apart.
I have had a range of cars over the 30 years I have been driving, and this is my experience in the UK.
When you are forced to buy a car just to maintain a job or not be run over on your way to get groceries on the transportation “infrastructure” provided by American cities, reliability for a car does make the top of the list.
I did not see it that way. When you say it like that I guess that would change my perspective a little too.
German cars are highly regarded around the world.
Now Italian cars...
That's not true anymore, at least among people who own ten year old German cars and those who work on them. The good german car thing evaporated around 2000, reputation is catching up finally.
I work for German car manufactorer, so my opinion might be biased, but I hate this job so it might balance things. My experience is that German cars sucks now, but every single other car sucks more.
The truth these days is that damn near every car has reasons why you shouldnt buy it.
The Germans are still fraudulently trading on their rep from the 80s, the French are always being different just for the fucking hell of it wether the customer likes it or not, the Italians love needing bespoke tools for simple jobs, everything British is now chinese or german, the Americans would be burned at the stake for suggesting the next model be smaller, Japans "reliability" rep is mostly being upheld by Toyota and Honda who charge accordingly, China is coming along in leaps and bounds but still cant figure out "supply chain logistics" for spare parts and Korea just keeps dropping the fucking ball over dumb simple shit.
People ask me all the time "What do you think about *CAR*" and Ive honestly resorted to "If you like it, buy it. Ive known people with reliable Fiats and unreliable Toyotas. The only unhappy people are the ones who bought a car they didnt WANT."
Magneti Mirelli 😬
I'd buy a European car before a Hyundai/Kia.
Youtube always shows off all the progressive and positive aspects of Europe. Bike lanes, relable trains. Was so jealous. Then heard that my game buddy is off to manditory milatary service.
The idea that the government can take away a year of your life, and thats normal is still a tough pill to swallow.
The vast majority of countries in Europe don't have military service, and it's no coincidence that the few countries which do, also border Russia.
From a few years ago
Edit: source https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/iejyu9/european_countries_with_mandatory_military_service/
Colourful image with no source. Just a bcbp logo which, wtf is that?
It's not even accurate. At least not for Sweden. So, if they got that wrong. I will assume the rest is possibly wrong too.
Iirc Sweden reinstated compulsory service in 2017?
It's compulsory with a huge asterisk next to it.
If they call you in, it's compulsory.
However, they call far from everyone, and there's about 1001 things you can do to not get called for service if you really don't want to.
First step is that you're sent a form to fill out. Questions about your health and habits among other things. So. If you really don't want to... Let's just say they probably won't be too interested in someone that (allegedly) smokes 1-2 pack of cigarettes a day.
Not to be confused with the Swedish concept of "Total Defense" (probably poorly translated). Should "total-defense" be called however. Everyone between 16 and 70 have to report in for war-duty. This doesn't mean everyone is going into battle. But it means you have to be at service for the defensive effort of our nation. Could be administrative tasks, logistical, construction, anything really, depends on who you are and what your experience is. This is not something you can get out of. It's one of your duties as a citizen
https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/iejyu9/european_countries_with_mandatory_military_service/
First comment addresses the Sweden situation
First comment is not correct either. Everyone does not fill out a form at 18.
Maybe you should stop posting things you cannot verify.
By that logic signing up for Selective Service in the US means the US doesn't have a volunteer military.
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Both have the same colour on the map, so I'm not sure how much that confusion could matter.
Jag är säker. Fler dumma frågor?
Not everybody has 40k American troops stationed in their country
Except for Greece and Turkey. They're both waiting for a cow to wander onto the wrong side of Cyprus. (I joke, but not by much)
Finn here. The willingness to defend the country is high in Finland. For a small country like Finland it's the most cost-effective way to keep up a credible defense. I guess a professional army might be an option now with NATO membership.
And, yes. It feels like the normal thing to do.
My grandfathers did it (and fought in two wars), my father did it, my older brother did it, plenty of friends did it at the same time as me.
It's an experience you can bond over very quickly.
Theres definatly SOME good to it. Hell, maybe that will help reduce the crime rate too*. From what ive heard, you are forced to learn a skill, so more skilled workers.
*Just came back from holiday. First taxi from the airport has dents in the doors from kids throwing rocks. Depressing here
Probably. Pretty much anyone who wants to go career can.
It's 5-6 months for the shortest service. In my case I volunteered to drive big rigs, so 12 months and I got a driver's license that would've required two years of lorry driving as a civilian. It's been my backup plan in case my career in rocket science hadn't worked out.
I think there's value to mandatory military service when your aims are primarily defensive. Country gets invaded and not only are there lots of people in the army already, but also there's plenty of reserves who just need refresher training. When you're the one getting invaded, you usually don't have problems with motivation unless the current regime has really fucked up.
When you try to use a largely conscripted army for invasions, like Russia is doing, people start to wonder why the hell they're doing this.
Conversely, when your country is known for military adventurism like the United States, it's easier to motivate volunteers. They signed up for this, and as fucked up as it is, they almost want to be sent off to war in some far off land. England also has generally used a volunteer military throughout its imperialist history. Giving your citizens the choice works better if you're going to be doing imperialism.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
Ugh, there are talks of reintroducing mandatory military service in Germany because of Russia (and a little bit for social services as one can do them as an alternative). Although I see that it might be necessary I hope that my kids won't have to serve.
I don't mind the idea of mandatory service to one's country, but "military" should be optional. I'm sure there's loads of important infrastructure projects that need doing, environment cleanup, various jobs to instill a sense of ownership and belonging while doing measurable good.
At least here in Finland, the military part is optional.
Kind of a compromise for smaller countries that want to have a standing army. And some countries offer alternatives like civil service or paying additional taxes instead for those that don't want to serve in the military.
The US having expensive higher education driving poorer people to join the military to afford it is bleaker honestly.
Well the thing is that not rvery country has this.
America here. I think that mandatory service is fine. Living in a largely democratic country should come with a price tag, not just be something that you get for free. E.g., immigrants that naturalize have to put a *lot* of effort into naturalization; as a result, they're usually much more personally invested in their civic life, on average, than typical citizens. Maybe ppl here would care more about fixing the country instead of just making sure they got theirs if they had to work for a year or two as conscripts.
Mandatory military service teaches you how kill. Why not build communities by having 1 year social working instead, certainly that teaches you more about your community.
Not just kill; being in the military tends to teach people to work together, even if it for mindless, stupid make-work projects. Hell, most people in the military--in the US--are in support roles, rather than being front line combat troops. That said, I thnk that mandatory service should be expanded to include roles like peace corps, habitat for humanity, food banks, etc.
Unfortunately. Mandatory military service is critical to many countries survival. You NEED to have a population that understand the basics of how to organise a defense.
It's the difference between being a country or being a province.
I will quote a Major in his response to why we don't practise defense coming from the west.
The second half of your comment seems disconnected from the first? We are specifically talking about mandatory military service for community building.
No one is talking about that other than you.
Your first part is how mandatory military service is just to teach how to kill. Which is not true.
Most countries don't need military service to work on community projects. Because people already know how their communities work, and there just isn't a need for that type of slave labour.
What the military can get called in for though are things like disaster relief or searches for missing people where you need to look through a whole forest.
A year in retail too, while we're at it.
Truth. The time I spent in retail made me *much* more patient.
I think there should be mandatory *service*, but not necessarily *military* service. Something like the old Civilian Conservation Corps.
But I'm also old enough that this policy wouldn't affect me directly, so take that as you will.
Sadly, I am too old as well. I tried to join a number of years ago, but was unable to due to a medication I was on. Waivers would have let me join during GWOT, but I was pretty opposed to our wars of choice.
They already take more years of your life away with school
"Take away a year of your life" is hyperbole.
It's not like you're dropped into 70s Vietnamese jungle with a garrot wire and some amphetamines.
It's more like a year long summer camp. Learn basic soldiering, learn some kind of speciality whether it's catering, logistics, or mechanics, and earn a good salary.
Most people go backpacking for a few years afterwards to spend the money they earned.
If you'd rather play games instead it's pretty easy to get an exemption.
French food is wildly overrated, as is Paris.
If there's anything Europeans know to be true, it's that Paris is a giant tourist trap. Not worth it imo.
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I love Paris with all my heart. And can absolutely agree, it's a giant tourist trap.
What the french DID for food historically cannot be understated, but times change.
Most Europeans still have a casual sense of arrogance and superiority over the rest of the world. It's not very heavy, but it's there, even among some of the best people I know
I have a formal sense of arrogance, thank you.
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I don't what the commenter is referring to specifically, but I encountered it as a young Australian working as a farm labourer. There were a couple of Germans working on the farm who looked down on me for having never travelled to Europe, and not being fluent in a second european language. The difference is that I was working for a living, and didn't have the money for travel. They were just working there as an experience while travelling overseas. As an older person, I now see that as a class issue, but at the time I got the impression that Europeans were snobby. I suspect they just came from wealthier backgrounds.
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Yeah that's a fair point. We make generalisations about people from other countries, but they're not all the same. Later in life I lived in Germany while I was pursuing my engineering career, and felt more affinity with the engineers of similar background to myself than I do for rich people in my own country. Growing up in the 21st century in western countries somewhat blinds you to class awareness because the media and education system doesn't discuss it but I feel that is starting to change now as online interaction breaks down those legacy barriers.
Smoking kills.
The numbers are a bit worse than I thought https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/smoking-rates-by-country.
As usual, Sweden is doing well. So are a lot of African countries.
Just came back from France it's out of control there seemingly.
Once years ago when I used to smoke, on was visiting Ghana and people were literally yelling at me for smoking in public. It's illegal to smoke in public in a few African countries at this point IIRC.
It's always jarring to go to an otherwise gorgeous and cosmopolitan EU city and see the kind of cigarette litter the US has 30 years ago. Where I live in the US, cops actually write tickets for throwing butts on the ground, and people will yell at you for it. In Lisbon or Paris, there are entire parts of the city which just smell like an ash tray because of all the cigarette litter.
Most of us dislike it. But it's also true that we have quite a lot of tobacco users. It's just disgusting
Why wouldn't Europeans be ready to hear that? Pretty sure we've been hearing it on a regular basis since the 70's
The US is not a mono-culture and most of us (unfortunately not all of them voted) are against most of the things we as a country are ridiculed over.
I swear, replace "US" or "Americans" in some of the stuff Europeans are posting/commenting with *any other country*, and those would sound xenophobic AF. But somehow, because 'Murica, it gets a pass.
It's kind of funny because if you go look at the reply about soccer, several people are like "that wasn't the Europeans, that was the brits!"
It's the same thing here with different states doing different crazy things ... Not that we also don't do some stuff nationally that's crazy, like electing a certain felon, but ya know
The UK is literally not in the EU. Florida is literally in the US.
Isn’t the UK in Europe though? The statement was about Europe, not the EU.
Yes
The amount of people who equate brexit to the UK leaving Europe and not the EU is ridiculous
Of course, and both Canada and Mexico are in North America.
Europe is nothing other than a geographical location, western Russia is also in "Europe", but surely you can see how this is not the same as the US, which is *not* a geographical location but a specific political entity?
People obviously don't judge Venezuela for what the US does and vice versa, so why include the UK in discourse about EU?
Iirc I assumed you simply used Europe as short-hand for EU, kind of like saying America but you really mean the US, because otherwise the comment makes no sense at all.
This thread is about soccer, homes.
Also I’m kind of confused how quickly you’re giving the UK the cold shoulder. It was in the EU for 47 years and has only been out of it for 4 (less than a tenth of the time), and yet you seem really quick to dismiss it and what it may or may not have brought to the EU. Why is that?
This is a widely recognized principle: kicking those above is OK, kicking those below isn't. The US is the most powerful country in the world, its culture dominates the globe, and celebrates that fact. So they are OK to kick.
So Europe acknowledges that USA is superior?
Close the thread, we got 'em
If Europeans looked at states like countries it’d make more sense to them. Hell it almost is with the size of states vs counties, the amount of land and the fact that every freaking state still has its own set of laws that may differ.
True, but even then each state isn't even a mono-culture. I'm as guilty as any when it comes to stereotyping states (particularly Florida via "Florida Man") but I'm trying to get out of that mindset myself lol.
Wyoming is a monoculture. It's too small of a population to be anything else.
/s
Even within States, there is a diversity of culture. Looking at Louisiana, the New Orleans area is highly influenced by French history resulting in Cajun culture, while the rest of the state is generally Southern. Florida is similar to Ancient Greece and its city-states in that the metropolitan areas have their own culture. But even within the southeast metro area, Miami and West Palm Beach are culturally quite different. Even more zoomed in, consider the Bay Area (Frisco). The Haight-Ashbury district is commonly considered the birthplace of the hippie movement, whereas across the bay is Oakland, birthplace of the Black Panthers. Both were quite progressive yet at odds with each other due to cultural differences stemming from race.\
We can zoom out and look at cultural differences across the country within the same racial group. For example, there's the famous East Coast vs West Coast rivalry in hip-hop that is so real, it resulted in the murders of Tupac Shakur and Biggie Smalls. Even within the same coast, New York hip-hop, such as Busta Rhymes, Jay-Z, and Wu-Tang, is noticeably different from Atalanta hip-hop, such as Outkast, Missy Elliot, and Ludacris. Even as static as race is, white rapper Eminem is often included in Black culture.
Within the White rural sphere, we can contrast Upper Peninsula Michiganders (Yoopers) with their major influence coming from long harsh winters to the Appalachians who are known for being culturally isolated, having a mistrust of outsiders and a history of conflict with mining companies. Then, we have rural white people from West Texas to Nevada that are influenced by the Wild West period and local native cultures. Even within that, Texans are much more conservative with social matters whereas Nevada has legal gambling and prostitution. They way I make sense of culture in the US is that it is an overlapping area of varying fields that interact with each other so that even direct lifelong neighbors can have have vastly different cultures.
I don't think I have to explain that obviously, this is the case in Europe as well. E.g. Germany alone has 16 vastly different states, and each state has multiple subcultures. The main difference is, our subcultures are more than a thousand years old, and the US 250.
Hey hey, don't forget about China lol. 'Oh you're Chinese? You must be brainwashed AF. Lemme teach you a few things about 4 June 1989.'
EU institutions are just as regulatory captured as everywhere else. The EU bureaucracy is horribly inefficient with tons of unfirable "human drones" making 2x for the same role one does in the the private market, where they just do 1/10x of the work. The only reason EU is not quite as corrupt as USA is ironically because all the competing rich fuckers of each nation are competing with each other's lobbying
We have less corruption because our bureaucracy is horribly inefficient.
If they want to bribe someone, they need to bribe a ton of people making it more costly and more visible.
Want to know what an efficient bureaucracy looks like? A dictatorship.
That's not stuff we're not ready to hear though; we all know that.
It might be unpopular opinion, but I firmly believe that Inefficiencies in the bureaucracy is a good thing considering alternatives. It acts like a buffer, redundancies are in effect acting like checks and balances, and it's way harder to break or subvert than the one without redundancy. And money that spent on it are such a minuscule percentage of overall spendings, it worth it in the end
While it may act as a buffer for reactionaries sometimes, it also serves as a way to stymie progressive politics for the same reasons.
Looking at some other governmental examples, I am happy to take this drawback. I think stopping another Trump or Putin is more important than improving. It's obviously important to do both, but if there is a choice...
Yeah it's not a binary choice. We don't have to accept either stagnation (i.e. slow cooking towards fascism) or fascism speedrun.
To be honest, looking at everything that is happening in the world, we have a uniary choice of being happy that fascism is sometimes slow. I am not even remotely optimistic fornthe future
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That soccer is boring. I'm european and love playing soccer but it's boring to watch.
That's pretty much all sports IMO
Can we get a sample of your username?
...a *sample*? Like, you want to whiff farts orrrr?
No, a little soundbite. What accent is it? French?
Aah, I see. Well, it varies based on what I've eaten. I ate maple sausage and scrambled eggs with cheddar cheese and chives for breakfast so I guess it'd be an American fart?
I'm afraid I don't have one in the chamber though, so no farts to share.
Basketball comes to mind as a pretty good spectator sport. But I agree for Baseball and American Football at least
There's no soccer in Europe ;)
Only futbol.
I think that's just sports in general. I enjoy playing almost all sportsball games. I'd sooner watch a Pong Livestream than watch 99% of sports.
Volleyball is pretty amazing to watch (and play too)
Sitting volleyball is kind of ok.
The greatest spectator sport is curling 🥌. I'm not even joking.
Well that's just it; it's not boring, but watching it usually is. Professional sports was a mistake.
Soccer is fine. It's the flopping which makes it unwatchable.\
Bro you are a full grown fucking man in the prime of your life and you just spent the last minute rolling around on the turf screaming in agony but now you're back at 100% for the next attack?\
The game really needs a rule which requires any player who goes to the turf for longer than 10s to get a sub or serve a 60s penalty.
OK now this one I agree with
Soccer is at least barely enjoyable.
Not like those cycling races that take 5 hours with nothing happening in them.
It's aluminum. Y'all just changed it to aluminium so it sounded like other elements. Which is even funnier because not all elements end with ium despite that being the main reason for the change.
I have a vague memory of looking this up and the guy that named it intended it to use the american pronounciation but the european spelling, so fuck that guy I guess?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Spelling
Enjoy
Ahh so it was the guy that came up with a new refining process that fucked us all over.
Yeah and it's pronounced chassis not cHaSsIS!