They don't get to complain because they refused to do the bare minimum.
Contribute to the many reasons I had to leave my home country. Not sure it would be different otherwise, but going immigrant without a fallback plan wasn't pleasant.
Mandatory voting - I'm for it as long as it's Australian style - no severe punishment, just light fines. Enough to quietly annoy people into voting.
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory? If someone doesn't follow politics and isn't educated enough to pick a good candidate, or motivated enough to research them, I think it's better to not vote at all than to give it up to either chance or a superficial gut feeling based on constant propaganda barrage. A person that votes like that just makes your vote less impactful, statistically speaking.
Because they won't do it randomly. Being forced to participate will make people think: "If I have to do it I might as well choose X".
If you ever participated in a mandatory school activity you might know the feeling. You might not have chosen to do it of your own free will, but now that you're there let's think what to make of it.
Also politics is not just voting. Politics is almost every choice you make every day. If I have to drag someone kicking and screaming until they understand it so be it.
Also also, voting randomly is not useless. Keeping the political system functional is preferable to forever pining for a perfect candidate. A "perfect glorious leader" doesn't exist, random votes make those emotionally swayed by charismatic leaders less likely to gain a majority.
That's a lot of assumptions that I can't agree are inherently true. Forcing people to participate might not make them think at all beyond fulfilling the duty and not paying a fine, and random votes might not balance out the charismatic leaders at all - if anything the charismatic populist leaders that focus on good PR over substance will probably gather up more of these uneducated "just circle something" voters than the others. It is where/why marketing and commercials work so well in the first place and I'd rather not give even more power to this type of brainwashing, it is a popularity contest enough as it is.
If anything, I'd make it so in order for people's votes to count they need to show at least a very basic understanding of what they are voting for and what are the implications of it.
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory?
Statistically, if a large population being "forced" to vote were voting names randomly on ballots that had their own order randomly assigned, then their votes would be evenly distributed and not end up affecting the results.\
Not necessarily true, I think most of those votes would go to the most popular populist candidate or the one with a better PR team, it wouldn't be truly random distribution.
It's a factor. I'm aware my political opinions are in the minority and unlikely to be implemented. Being able to demonstrate that I tried to do something gives legitimacy to my criticism.
As an Australian I do have a bit of a problem with mandatory voting. Mostly because it forces the uninformed to go vote too, so we get the same breed of fearmongering and sensationalist headlines on the newspaper front pages that are all owned by the same billionaires and the same idiots on social security voting for the party that would abolish social security because Facebook told them the other party wanted to let muslims rape their girlfriend.
But the voting on the weekend and the democracy sausage we definitely got right.
They should shut up about politics. Not voting is literally a declaration that you don't care who governs you. Voting is what gives you the right to complain about the government. If you didn't vote, shut up.
This is just ignorance and whiny entitlement. Your "fake anti-democratic spectacle" is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you. Boring liberal representative democracy is the *exception* in world history. Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government. Not good enough for you? Well then get off your ass and do something to make it better. The *very least* you can do is vote, because out of two candidates, one is *always* better than another. If you can't be bothered to do even that, then I for one don't care what you have to say about politics.
is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you.
Really? The generations of people who resisted and fought against THIS EXACT STATUS QUO would be proud of these glorified rubberstamping spectacles which only exist to legitimize elite rule?
Really?
Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history.
Really? So the ongoing genocide your "boring liberal representative democracy" is funding is... an *exception?* The history books says otherwise.
Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government.
Lol! Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
What's the matter, liberal? Is all the cognitive dissonance starting to make you feel queesy?
Those Yankee college students staging protests on US campuses are far better at "doing" democracy than all the voting you could do over a lifetime put together.
Perhaps it's best that you don't try to flex about something you don't seem to know too much about, okay?
Elections might be skewed, they might be giving voters a rather narrow choice, they might depend on who's got the bigger campaign fund, they might not offer ranked choice, yet with all that --they're *still* one of the most accessible, actionable things the average person can do to control their nation's future. Passing on that is not justifiable, because we should be doing everything we can, and that includes voting. I used to be cynical like you, but then I took an arr I mean, we can't afford that.
Depends on your nomenclature, I've heard US and France's political systems referred to as "flawed democracies". I personally didn't call either a democracy, I think we're past that quite frankly.
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
I call cynicism "giving in to desperation instead of acting". I've explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice, so far you have failed to reason back. Do you think you can do that ?
You put american electoralism up on a pedestal and tout its sanctity and your faith in the process. The process yielded Trump. If you truly believe in the sanctity of american electoralism, you now have no grounds to complain.
No one is going to kiss your ass just because you shout loudly at them about how broken shit is.
That’s not how it works.
And just like how you like to say that no one is entitled to your vote- you’re not entitled to be taken seriously when all you do is demand to be, without doing a damn thing to earn it.
Oh you do, but you lost the right to be taken seriously by anyone that did. And it’s no big surprise how so many of you that were shouting at everyone before the election have either vanished, or fallen silent about it since.
Better than voting for who looks the best on TV, or any of the other ways people vote without being fully informed. I'm sometimes forced to leave sections blanks because I cannot find anything about the candidates (I don't know why my state vote on judges, the only way to find out if they any are good is to spend 100% of your time in court rooms, reading decisions, and so on all year)
If you trust them. Where I live the bar chooses the person on the ballot and we only get a up or down. Thus any evaluation they do is by definiton a conflict of interest.
Well, where I am there are fourteen different bar associations. I'm not saying that if they all agree a judge is good it's always so; but if three of them think a judge is *not* qualified, that's not a judge I'll vote for.
I'm largely disappointed in them. The one time they were needed the most, they didn't care to show up. Like, you do not have to be knee deep in politics to understand what's at stake and who's running. Take a good solid 30 minutes out of your life, to research and study the candidates, the issues and think of the future of the country's direction if either candidate and their party got voted in.
If they'd do just that, they'd probably have a better understanding. But they didn't do that. They thought the 2024 election was in the bag and feel they didn't need to do their part. Well, the results speak for themselves.
And nothing much more needs to be said or done, they've sentenced themselves to the mess that's to happen a week and a half from now. Just as much as all of the brainwashed and braindead conservatives who actively voted for fascism.
They’re definitely part of the reason why we are where we are. Not the only reason, but definitely a big part of it.
Additionally, I’ll say that their refusal to vote isn’t the protest they think it is. All it did was tell the powers that be that they trust everyone else to choose for them and that they’re fine with whoever wins.
As an anarchist, I respect their decision in the sense that participating in the state is fighting for the state.
I would tell them to vote though, and I myself vote when its needed, to avoid getting utter bastards as 'legitimate' leaders. Here in France it's even easier because I'm not given the choice between only capitalists and fascists, i can vote for light versions of socialists.
I'm against fines, even light ones. If they are not strictly scaled to income, they always strike harder people who are struggling already than richer ones. And even if they do, it's not fair to be forced to participate in a form of politics you don't want.
Perhaps they would feel more inclined to vote if we had more then two viable political parties to choose from.
With a more representative electoral system, people would be *free* to vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect. Their vote would count, even if their preference didn’t win.
Who could possibly be against democracy? Republicans? Of course.
How about the democratic party? What is their opinion of democracy? Will they work to ensure their constituents are represented fully? Every day that ticks by without electoral reform in blue states is another day the democrats elevate their party above the needs of the country.
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use currently)
People who don’t vote don’t get to complain if things don’t go their way. I mean they can, but it’s pretty silly. It’s like writing a review for a restaurant that your friends have eaten at, but that you haven’t. No one should take that review seriously.
I think voting should be mandatory for people who have registered to vote. I don’t think anyone should be required to register, but if you are registered you should have to vote or be fined, imo.
If they wanted a certain outcome but didn't do jacks shit, with almost no exceptions as to why they didn't vote, and complain about it, they are getting absolutely zero, zilch, notta, nothing in the sympathy department from me.
If you got the ability to vote, even if it's for something as minor as what's for dinner, and you don't vote, don't complain because you didn't do anything.
They're no worse than (possibly better than) people who voted for whichever party because their parents/newspaper taught/told them to, or because that's who they always vote for and are too lazy, stubborn, peer pressured or insecure to change - i.e. people who claim to be politically literate but don't actually have a clue what they're really voting for.
and what if government tomorrow or (maybe far future) announced that they will be announcing fines for people who didn't vote in order to maximize participation, would you agree with that decision?
You mean, as already happens in Australia and Belgium and maybe a few other places.
Seems fair to me. Democracy relies on participation. To not vote is effectively to vote against democracy. Fair enough, but that's a dangerous road to go down. I think there should be a small price to pay for it.
No, the onus is first on you first to explain why "we don't exist in a democratic society" and above all what is your brilliant plan for making things better. If all you can do is whine about why it's all useless *while you undermine the system by opting out of it*, then frankly I'm not interested in anything you have to say.
This is the dumb way to go about incentivizing people to vote.
Make voting part of doing your taxes. Everyone is already verified through the IRS, piggyback off that system. Whatever amount you had in your head as a fine, make it a tax credit if they compete the voting portion of the tax paperwork.
People who don't do taxes can vote by mail still and can still receive the money for voting. No more stupid fucking voting booths.
Lazy idiots, misguided idiots, deluded idiots who have made every progressive goal more difficult to achieve, just out of reach for the rest of our lives
I don't care. Popular vote doesn't get presidents elected, and nobody local ever seems both interested and capable of making significant positive changes, at least that I've seen. It largely feels like theater, and in a race you can't influence between two people pledging to continue genocide I can see why people would throw their hands up and say fuck everything.
Edit: Unlocking based on argument that this post is general rather than about the recent US election (OP to edit title).
Edit 2: OP has chosen not to edit title. Locking.
Quiet contempt, mostly. Their arguments for doing so, while passionate, simply don’t hold up under scrutiny. However, trying to talk to them about it just strengthens their resolve, so I don’t bother.
lmfao, YES. I can't tell if you're being intentionally myopic. For the first time in a long time we *know* how this is going to go. There has never been a more clear A:B case in this field. This wasn't 2016. Dead bodies in congress and I don't remember worrying about if my friends who are serving were going to call me from godamn *greenland* before Nov. Buckle up. You won. Reap the rewards.
Everyone who didn't vote got what they asked for. There were two options. If someone thinks there's better days ahead so be it, but what's coming up is part of that same decision. There is no one else to blame. If the pain is worth the long term benefit, then fine, but it was an active and informed choice. The bodies that result were deemed acceptable in service of a better 2028.
Do tell... how does the meaning of the term *democracy* turn into an enforced choice between a mere "two options" inside your head? "Two options" that, let us not forget, share more similarities than differences and are inevitably designed to benefit the powerful elites that CURATED these choices FOR you?
I've been taught people vote on their opinions, opinions form based on how the politicians resonate with them, and that in turn happens due to how good or bad they are.
Last year yielded only the most questionable choices for the presidency in the US. Is it any wonder some people didn't vote? Any politician that judges non-voters only hints at the kind of aura that may have caused them to lose in the first place.
If I don't vote, I'll get judged. If I vote third party, I'll get judged. If I vote for the person we're taught to hate, I'll get judged. What does everyone want? Non-democracy?
Everyone get's what they asked for. The thing about the ubiquitous trolley problem is it has clear outcomes. That's why it works. Whatever's happening down the track, here we are. We had a lever we didn't pull. Best learn to live with the choice, because there was a choice.
Not true at an individual level. Where I live, no way of voting or not voting would have mattered. The same was true where I used to live years ago. In many places it's clear my vote doesn't matter every single time and the outcome would not have changed in most of the election categories.
Sure, and same. Some of us in the US did get the luxury of protest vote. How'd you do in local? I'm not even a democrat. First time I voted down ticket.
I'm not sure about what election you're referring to. If you mean in the recent US presidential election, most of them weren't in a position to realistically affect the outcome anyway; they'd need to be in a swing state, a state that wasn't already very probably going to go one way or the other.
That being said, if they didn't vote for the President, they probably also didn't vote for other things on the ballot that probably affect them as well. It's not just about electing the President.
The generals still went the right way, but I'm quite frustrated by them not being as mobilized for regionals and locals as a way to signal disatisfaction on something they perceived to matter less. It has lots of practical effects that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of performative anger.
鴉PieFed
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory? If someone doesn't follow politics and isn't educated enough to pick a good candidate, or motivated enough to research them, I think it's better to not vote at all than to give it up to either chance or a superficial gut feeling based on constant propaganda barrage. A person that votes like that just makes your vote less impactful, statistically speaking.
Because they won't do it randomly. Being forced to participate will make people think: "If I have to do it I might as well choose X". If you ever participated in a mandatory school activity you might know the feeling. You might not have chosen to do it of your own free will, but now that you're there let's think what to make of it.
Also politics is not just voting. Politics is almost every choice you make every day. If I have to drag someone kicking and screaming until they understand it so be it.
Also also, voting randomly is not useless. Keeping the political system functional is preferable to forever pining for a perfect candidate. A "perfect glorious leader" doesn't exist, random votes make those emotionally swayed by charismatic leaders less likely to gain a majority.
That's a lot of assumptions that I can't agree are inherently true. Forcing people to participate might not make them think at all beyond fulfilling the duty and not paying a fine, and random votes might not balance out the charismatic leaders at all - if anything the charismatic populist leaders that focus on good PR over substance will probably gather up more of these uneducated "just circle something" voters than the others. It is where/why marketing and commercials work so well in the first place and I'd rather not give even more power to this type of brainwashing, it is a popularity contest enough as it is.
If anything, I'd make it so in order for people's votes to count they need to show at least a very basic understanding of what they are voting for and what are the implications of it.
Deleted by moderator
Which one is which that's the big question
Statistically, if a large population being "forced" to vote were voting names randomly on ballots that had their own order randomly assigned, then their votes would be evenly distributed and not end up affecting the results.\
Not necessarily true, I think most of those votes would go to the most popular populist candidate or the one with a better PR team, it wouldn't be truly random distribution.
So you only vote in order to complain?
It's a factor. I'm aware my political opinions are in the minority and unlikely to be implemented. Being able to demonstrate that I tried to do something gives legitimacy to my criticism.
Participating in a glorified spectacle that simply exists to rubberstamp elite rule qualifies as "doing something" to you?
As an Australian I do have a bit of a problem with mandatory voting. Mostly because it forces the uninformed to go vote too, so we get the same breed of fearmongering and sensationalist headlines on the newspaper front pages that are all owned by the same billionaires and the same idiots on social security voting for the party that would abolish social security because Facebook told them the other party wanted to let muslims rape their girlfriend.
But the voting on the weekend and the democracy sausage we definitely got right.
They should shut up about politics. Not voting is literally a declaration that you don't care who governs you. Voting is what gives you the right to complain about the government. If you didn't vote, shut up.
Not participating in fake, anti-democratic spectacles (somehow) "disqualifies" one from talking about politics?
This is just ignorance and whiny entitlement. Your "fake anti-democratic spectacle" is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you. Boring liberal representative democracy is the *exception* in world history. Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government. Not good enough for you? Well then get off your ass and do something to make it better. The *very least* you can do is vote, because out of two candidates, one is *always* better than another. If you can't be bothered to do even that, then I for one don't care what you have to say about politics.
Really? The generations of people who resisted and fought against THIS EXACT STATUS QUO would be proud of these glorified rubberstamping spectacles which only exist to legitimize elite rule?
Really?
Really? So the ongoing genocide your "boring liberal representative democracy" is funding is... an *exception?* The history books says otherwise.
Lol! Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
What's the matter, liberal? Is all the cognitive dissonance starting to make you feel queesy?
No, you sound like an ignorant decadent American college student.
Those Yankee college students staging protests on US campuses are far better at "doing" democracy than all the voting you could do over a lifetime put together.
Perhaps it's best that you don't try to flex about something you don't seem to know too much about, okay?
if neither one should have power, I'm not voting for either one
Elections might be skewed, they might be giving voters a rather narrow choice, they might depend on who's got the bigger campaign fund, they might not offer ranked choice, yet with all that --they're *still* one of the most accessible, actionable things the average person can do to control their nation's future. Passing on that is not justifiable, because we should be doing everything we can, and that includes voting. I used to be cynical like you, but
then I took an arrI mean, we can't afford that.If you want to see this glorified rubberstamping of elite rule through those kind of rose-tinted spectacles, fine.
But don't call it "democracy."
If you think seeing through propaganda is "cynicism," boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
Depends on your nomenclature, I've heard US and France's political systems referred to as "flawed democracies". I personally didn't call either a democracy, I think we're past that quite frankly.
I call cynicism "giving in to desperation instead of acting". I've explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice, so far you have failed to reason back. Do you think you can do that ?
Painting a lighter shade of lipstick on a pig doesn't make the pig less of a pig.
No, you didn't. And that is legit refreshing.
I never said that not voting was reasonable. My point is that it's perfectly UNDERSTANDABLE.
There is a difference.
no, it's not
Make them take the "Walk of Shame" like in the GoT.
No fines. Just make it even easier and better process. Mail in ballots and a federal holiday for the Presidential election.
They suck, but not nearly as much as the people that voted for Trump that are now claiming ignorance of his policies and regret their vote.
Reminds of the pro-brexit voters when they truly understood what they voted for
Decisions are made by those that show up. If you didn’t vote, you don’t get to bitch when the results aren’t what you wanted.
Hard not to bitch when, as a citizen of another country, I could never vote, and yet people here still have to deal with the consequences.
You better believe the rest of the world will be bitching.
Backwards.
You put american electoralism up on a pedestal and tout its sanctity and your faith in the process. The process yielded Trump. If you truly believe in the sanctity of american electoralism, you now have no grounds to complain.
If you vote, you don't get to complain.
Buy a helmet. Wear it.
ROFL! Holy shit…. That is funny!
yes, I do
And we will all laugh at you for that hot take. Next time get off your ass and participate if you have an opinion.
don't tell me what to do
I did.
Oh wow, I'm sure this will totally get them to vote next time! /$
Deleted by moderator
No one is going to kiss your ass just because you shout loudly at them about how broken shit is.
That’s not how it works.
And just like how you like to say that no one is entitled to your vote- you’re not entitled to be taken seriously when all you do is demand to be, without doing a damn thing to earn it.
Oh you do, but you lost the right to be taken seriously by anyone that did. And it’s no big surprise how so many of you that were shouting at everyone before the election have either vanished, or fallen silent about it since.
Fine, but we'll take you less seriously.
this is bigotry
Better than voting for who looks the best on TV, or any of the other ways people vote without being fully informed. I'm sometimes forced to leave sections blanks because I cannot find anything about the candidates (I don't know why my state vote on judges, the only way to find out if they any are good is to spend 100% of your time in court rooms, reading decisions, and so on all year)
local bar associations publish judge evaluations before the election
If you trust them. Where I live the bar chooses the person on the ballot and we only get a up or down. Thus any evaluation they do is by definiton a conflict of interest.
Well, where I am there are fourteen different bar associations. I'm not saying that if they all agree a judge is good it's always so; but if three of them think a judge is *not* qualified, that's not a judge I'll vote for.
I'm largely disappointed in them. The one time they were needed the most, they didn't care to show up. Like, you do not have to be knee deep in politics to understand what's at stake and who's running. Take a good solid 30 minutes out of your life, to research and study the candidates, the issues and think of the future of the country's direction if either candidate and their party got voted in.
If they'd do just that, they'd probably have a better understanding. But they didn't do that. They thought the 2024 election was in the bag and feel they didn't need to do their part. Well, the results speak for themselves.
And nothing much more needs to be said or done, they've sentenced themselves to the mess that's to happen a week and a half from now. Just as much as all of the brainwashed and braindead conservatives who actively voted for fascism.
Are you saying the 2020 presidential election wasn't the most important one ever? Because that's not what everyone was saying.
They actively brought about political disaster through idiotic, self-absorbed assholery and they will be licking it up for four long fucking years.
You want to blame the people who didn't participate in anti-democratic spectacles for the existence of said anti-democratic spectacles?
They’re definitely part of the reason why we are where we are. Not the only reason, but definitely a big part of it.
Additionally, I’ll say that their refusal to vote isn’t the protest they think it is. All it did was tell the powers that be that they trust everyone else to choose for them and that they’re fine with whoever wins.
As an anarchist, I respect their decision in the sense that participating in the state is fighting for the state.
I would tell them to vote though, and I myself vote when its needed, to avoid getting utter bastards as 'legitimate' leaders. Here in France it's even easier because I'm not given the choice between only capitalists and fascists, i can vote for light versions of socialists.
I'm against fines, even light ones. If they are not strictly scaled to income, they always strike harder people who are struggling already than richer ones. And even if they do, it's not fair to be forced to participate in a form of politics you don't want.
Thank you. Sadly, the concept of legitimizing a government isn't something most people understand enough to appreciate.
Perhaps they would feel more inclined to vote if we had more then two viable political parties to choose from.
With a more representative electoral system, people would be *free* to vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect. Their vote would count, even if their preference didn’t win.
Who could possibly be against democracy? Republicans? Of course.
How about the democratic party? What is their opinion of democracy? Will they work to ensure their constituents are represented fully? Every day that ticks by without electoral reform in blue states is another day the democrats elevate their party above the needs of the country.
Videos on alternative voting systems
First Past The Post voting (What most states use currently)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
Alternative vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y3jE3B8HsE
Ranked Choice voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z2fRPRkWvY
Range Voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3GFG0sXIig
Single Transferable Vote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8XOZJkozfI
STAR voting
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-mOeUXAkV0
Mixed Member Proportional representation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0I-sdoSXU
There was a choice. You failed to choose the better option, and thus must accept the worst.
Simple-as.
People who don’t vote don’t get to complain if things don’t go their way. I mean they can, but it’s pretty silly. It’s like writing a review for a restaurant that your friends have eaten at, but that you haven’t. No one should take that review seriously.
I think voting should be mandatory for people who have registered to vote. I don’t think anyone should be required to register, but if you are registered you should have to vote or be fined, imo.
If they wanted a certain outcome but didn't do jacks shit, with almost no exceptions as to why they didn't vote, and complain about it, they are getting absolutely zero, zilch, notta, nothing in the sympathy department from me.
If you got the ability to vote, even if it's for something as minor as what's for dinner, and you don't vote, don't complain because you didn't do anything.
They're no worse than (possibly better than) people who voted for whichever party because their parents/newspaper taught/told them to, or because that's who they always vote for and are too lazy, stubborn, peer pressured or insecure to change - i.e. people who claim to be politically literate but don't actually have a clue what they're really voting for.
Should I have thoughts on them?
and what if government tomorrow or (maybe far future) announced that they will be announcing fines for people who didn't vote in order to maximize participation, would you agree with that decision?
You mean, as already happens in Australia and Belgium and maybe a few other places.
Seems fair to me. Democracy relies on participation. To not vote is effectively to vote against democracy. Fair enough, but that's a dangerous road to go down. I think there should be a small price to pay for it.
You don't exist in a democratic society. So what exactly do you want people to participate in?
No, the onus is first on you first to explain why "we don't exist in a democratic society" and above all what is your brilliant plan for making things better. If all you can do is whine about why it's all useless *while you undermine the system by opting out of it*, then frankly I'm not interested in anything you have to say.
Did you vote FOR the ongoing genocide the liberal status quo is funding in Palestine as we speak, genius? Were you ever given the chance, hmm?
Yes or no?
If no, where is your "public power?" Where is the *democratic* power you *should* have if you actually existed in a *democratic society?*
To a non-brainwashed person, this would be perfectly obvious. But it's not obvious to YOU.
Now you are demanding solutions to a problem you insist do not exist. A bit incoherent, don't you think?
ROFLMAO!
Good job demonstrating that you don't have the foggiest understanding of the system you are defending.
Your argument for not bothering to get off your ass and vote in a US election is "Palestine"? America deserves what it gets.
This is the dumb way to go about incentivizing people to vote.
Make voting part of doing your taxes. Everyone is already verified through the IRS, piggyback off that system. Whatever amount you had in your head as a fine, make it a tax credit if they compete the voting portion of the tax paperwork.
People who don't do taxes can vote by mail still and can still receive the money for voting. No more stupid fucking voting booths.
Lazy idiots, misguided idiots, deluded idiots who have made every progressive goal more difficult to achieve, just out of reach for the rest of our lives
I don't care. Popular vote doesn't get presidents elected, and nobody local ever seems both interested and capable of making significant positive changes, at least that I've seen. It largely feels like theater, and in a race you can't influence between two people pledging to continue genocide I can see why people would throw their hands up and say fuck everything.
Sure, but local offices have a much larger effect on most people's lives and that's where voting *can* make a change.
They can live with Brexit.
Rule 6. Locking.
Edit: Unlocking based on argument that this post is general rather than about the recent US election (OP to edit title). Edit 2: OP has chosen not to edit title. Locking.
They probably couldn't afford to miss a day to work, and they know from experience that neither party is going to do anything to change that.
Deleted by moderator
Let me guess... you support gun control. Your comment is just more proof that the working class must never disarm no matter the pretext.
SocialistRA.org
I don't personally care if someone voted or not, especially this election.
Quiet contempt, mostly. Their arguments for doing so, while passionate, simply don’t hold up under scrutiny. However, trying to talk to them about it just strengthens their resolve, so I don’t bother.
And your arguments FOR participating? Will they hold up under scrutiny?
lmfao, YES. I can't tell if you're being intentionally myopic. For the first time in a long time we *know* how this is going to go. There has never been a more clear A:B case in this field. This wasn't 2016. Dead bodies in congress and I don't remember worrying about if my friends who are serving were going to call me from godamn *greenland* before Nov. Buckle up. You won. Reap the rewards.
I just love baseless confidence.
Let's be hearing them, then.
Lol!
"You won.
Lol!"
Everyone who didn't vote got what they asked for. There were two options. If someone thinks there's better days ahead so be it, but what's coming up is part of that same decision. There is no one else to blame. If the pain is worth the long term benefit, then fine, but it was an active and informed choice. The bodies that result were deemed acceptable in service of a better 2028.
Do tell... how does the meaning of the term *democracy* turn into an enforced choice between a mere "two options" inside your head? "Two options" that, let us not forget, share more similarities than differences and are inevitably designed to benefit the powerful elites that CURATED these choices FOR you?
the only thing they clearly wanted was no winner
The majority of non-voters I've met irl are conservatives, so I'm happy they didn’t vote
I've been taught people vote on their opinions, opinions form based on how the politicians resonate with them, and that in turn happens due to how good or bad they are.
Last year yielded only the most questionable choices for the presidency in the US. Is it any wonder some people didn't vote? Any politician that judges non-voters only hints at the kind of aura that may have caused them to lose in the first place.
If I don't vote, I'll get judged. If I vote third party, I'll get judged. If I vote for the person we're taught to hate, I'll get judged. What does everyone want? Non-democracy?
Everyone get's what they asked for. The thing about the ubiquitous trolley problem is it has clear outcomes. That's why it works. Whatever's happening down the track, here we are. We had a lever we didn't pull. Best learn to live with the choice, because there was a choice.
Not true at an individual level. Where I live, no way of voting or not voting would have mattered. The same was true where I used to live years ago. In many places it's clear my vote doesn't matter every single time and the outcome would not have changed in most of the election categories.
Therefore I do not actually have choice.
Did you make an effort? Yes/no.
Sure, and same. Some of us in the US did get the luxury of protest vote. How'd you do in local? I'm not even a democrat. First time I voted down ticket.
They don’t care who leads them and are happy to go along with whatever circumstances or rules are presented to them.
Any problems with those circumstances or rules are their fault.
Vote in what?
I'm not going to get on their case. I think that's okay if they genuinely don't care or don't know what's good for them.
Good for them. The less people who vote, the easier it is to claim correctly that the supposed rulers are illegitimate.
I'm not sure about what election you're referring to. If you mean in the recent US presidential election, most of them weren't in a position to realistically affect the outcome anyway; they'd need to be in a swing state, a state that wasn't already very probably going to go one way or the other.
That being said, if they didn't vote for the President, they probably also didn't vote for other things on the ballot that probably affect them as well. It's not just about electing the President.
I shake my head at ballots cast for elephants
I shake my head at ballots cast for donkeys
cuz I swear to God our leaders
they will be the death of us
there is no vote we can cast to set us free
vote November second if it seems right to you
don't vote if you think it just holds us down
but tell me what we're gonna do on November third
to make sure there's no government left to elect two years from now
I don’t care, not like our elections actually mean anything, we get Putin anyway.
Deleted by author
The generals still went the right way, but I'm quite frustrated by them not being as mobilized for regionals and locals as a way to signal disatisfaction on something they perceived to matter less. It has lots of practical effects that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of performative anger.
Wait, which election were you asking about again?