鴉PieFedSeems like the perfect day to ask: Muricans, what's your dream country to expatriate to? Non-Muricans, what's the thought on accepting US refugees?
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Sterile_TechniquePlease go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
So, it's not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn't an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you're taking notes, that's pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I'm not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I'd lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I'd have just bought one here. I didn't save enough to make it worth it.
I'm not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney's office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I'm not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn't care because they got to vote for team (R) in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I've tried hard to remove it. I've tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I'm glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
There were some very fucked up things happening in our very red state, both in general and to us in particular. We had considered something similar, like moving to Maine or Vermont. These things happened just at the right time in 2024 that it was obvious that trump was going to win, but we still had time to plan to get out before he did.
We figured if we were going to go through the hassle of moving far enough away that any friends or family were going to fly to come vist us, that just moving to a blue state wasn't good enough. We figured that when trump was reelected that even blue states wouldn't be safe enough.
And believe me, I am well aware of how fortunate I am, because I was not always so fortunate. I realize that not everyone can do it. There were a couple of women married to each other that lived near us that were scared as hell, but they couldn't afford to move to any of the places they were researching.
I researched Canada thoroughly, and I think I even (used to, before trump’s shenanigans) qualify for expedited citizenship. I also work remotely, for a global company, and will just keep my job. Unfortunately there were just too many costs involved, and I couldn’t foot the bill. It sucks, because you get a lot more house for a lot fewer dollars up there. I haven’t given up though. But it’s at least a year or two down the road.
Canadas housing situation is worse than the US I thought, at least in the places most people live.
I can’t really speak to that. I can only speak to the fact that the houses I was looking at were what I would consider a very good value for the money, at least compared to what you can get in the US these days.
Even if a Democrat got reelected the bbb ensures that it makes it look like the DEms are at fault considered the cuts will be in act after the elections, and then you have the D being complicit to the whole takeover by the GOp as well
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it's fair enough to move on.
Thanks. I care a lot about liberty and freedom. I think they come with duty and responsibility. Even though we are anonymous strangers on the internet, I want you to know that I respect everyone who stays and fights either because they cant leave or they choose not to. I hope you all win. I can still vote in federal elections, and I will continue to do so.
Já maður, Bandaríkin sökka velkominn til landsins.
Takk fyrir.
Bombandi, já maður! Velkomin/n!
Má ég spyrja: Hvers vegna Ísland? Hvernig gengur að læra tungumálið? Hvernig gengur að finna vinnu? Nærðu að vingast við fólk?
(Feel free to respond in English, it’s a bitch of a language to learn)
Ok, without cheating, I can read:
_, yeah man! Welcome.
May I ask, why Iceland? How goes learning the language? How goes finding work? Something something with people?
So, Iceland is rated top 5 in pretty much every happiness or quality of life rating there is. They are still focused on freedom and education of people, so hopefully the descent into fascism is much further away. Also, I have some allergies that are causing other problems, so moving to a place with many months of no pollen was a good thing for me. That and the northern lights make the winter a positive for me, not a negative.
Learning the language is hard, as you say. I've been very lucky to move to a place and make friends with a lot of people who are helping me learn a lot. They have patience with me and repeat things slowly. I try to pick up a few words a day. I am maybe at the level of a toddler. I can pick out enough words and read body language well enough to get the context, but I can't really make sentences well. And all of the people helping me learn is a double edged sword. They don't want to act like talking to a toddler all day, so we end up speaking English a lot.
The work thing is turning out pretty ok. I might be able to get a bit of consulting gig going, or I may look for a remote job in Europe. Maybe both. I'm very fortunate to have money enough to pay cash for a decent house and have money enough to live off of for a few years once I don't have rent to pay, so that hasn't been as much of a priority for me. This has been more of a vacation for a bit.
So I cheated to find out the last question: Do I manage to make friends with people? Yes! This has been the biggest surprise. Most sources that we read on the internet told us that as a foreigner, wed always be on the outsiders. The perspective that we read is that everyone is everyone's frændi, and we're just always going to be on the outside. Perhaps we got very lucky, but it seems that we've found a way to become a part of the local community. It's a little village in the north, so it's perhaps better to make friends than in the capitol. They mostly seem to be happy to see people actually moving in instead of out.
Æðislegt! Gaman að heyra!
Yeah the friend thing is always tricky but if you’re open (as you clearly are) there’s always a community to be found with some tenacity!
Glad to have you 🤘
Ireland. I'm a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it's not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.
We're thinking Scotland. There's some real nice homes for reasonable prices. My wife's already a UK citizen so that helps.
Not much, though - I'm English, and we worked out it would cost £20k for the various visas. On top of that, you need to pay an NHS premium, even though you would already be paying for it through the usual national insurance deduction from your salary. It will also take 10 years before they are a citizen.
We decided to stay here (Germany). Less costs and, sadly, better health care.
For anyone who's thinking UK, I'd advise not - we're about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there's still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
Just to add: The xenophobic riot last year...
Especially a bad idea if you are Muslim, Arab, or just look "Middle-Eastern".
Or if you're transgender (it's called "TERF Island" for a reason)
Also, God, the weather
The weather is the main reason I'd want to go there. I prefer dreary.
UK was formerly on my shortlist but was removed a few years ago.
Vote for Ed Davie if you get the chance.
Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don't like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn't compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.
Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.
I don't mean to naysay but this isn't reduced civil rights people are fleeing. The US is building concentration camps and has recently approved expanding their budget for ICE (originally immigration enforcement, now a gestapo analogue) such that it is larger than most world militaries.
This is naziism people are fleeing. This is death camps people are fleeing.
And those people fleeing genuine threat should be welcomed as refugees. American voting citizens however, need to get their assess out on the streets and actually start challenging the police, ICE and government, instead of fleeing what they created.
I’ve always thought there’s two kinds of Americans; the ones who have a passport and the ones who don’t.
If they’re willing to explore the world and recognise the US isn’t the whole universe I find them to be totally fine.
Whether or not someone has a passport is almost entirely based on the amount of wealth that person or their family has.
Where I grew up, almost nobody traveled abroad because nobody could afford it. Or at most, back in the day they would drive to Canada because you could cross without a passport.
For some reason getting a passport is like $200, plus whatever it takes to get the required supporting documents (eg: birth certificate, the photo). That's not much by many metrics, but a lot of people in the US just don't have $200 to spend.
In 2016 there were tens of million of Americans who couldn't absorb a sudden $400 expense without going further into debt.
That number's probably grown significantly since.
Drop in the bucket compared to the cost of travel. Your point still stands though.
It's also convoluted process too. If you never had passport or haven't renewed in like 15+years you have to reapply, and then set up a whole appointment, most are booked months it not longer in advanced and only specific location USPS in your area. The scientists currently emigrating to Europe are already well off individuals( that's why MDS and scientists are considered well off peoples degrees), certainly not poor
Difficult to get a visa to other countries without a passport.
There are also Americans who had a passport of a different country before they naturalized
I'm German and as far as I'm concerned the people who want to flee the current US administration are exactly the type of people you want to welcome with open arms.
As a trans woman I might need somewhere to go and I desperately hope that when that day comes someone like you is in charge if deciding if I get to stay.
Are you specifically talking about north americans of european descent? As if Germany isn’t dipping right into their pre WW2 culture with Merz as chancellor and AfD getting more votes each year 🤡
Deutschland den Deutsche, Ausländer Raus
the ones that cant stop sucking off trump, arent even leaving usa anyways(trump supporters/liberterians), they are too inside thier bubble. scientists and mds and engineers have much more options than people with non-graduate degrees unfortunately.
The kind of american that usually comes to Mexico is very nice, very welcome. Maybe the exceptions are the very loud and self absorbed ones that go to resort locations and act like they're better than everyone there.
As long as people want to integrate and cooperate they are more than welcome.
Now, the sad part is the gentrification that comes with a lot of people moving and outpaying rent vs the locals. Now the average cost of living in Mexico city is about 50% higher than the average salary, and about 100% higher than the median salary. Another very negative thing is that now a lot of locals have to communicate in english because American people will come and not learn spanish over multiple years living here. There are zones where everything is in english now. It's okay speaking english, it's not okay expecting english from everyone.
So a few pointers:
Be friendly, but that's always
La ciudad de México is what I've been thinking of. seems like a fabulous place. doubt I could take the heat and I'm more likely to end up in Asia, but Mexico City and Toronto are top contenders
Luckily mexico city is not actually that hot, quite humid though
yeah I'd prefer -30 over +30 and humid
Now the good thing with humidity is that refrigeration works wonders, and in Mexico Mini Splits are super cheap, as is electricity
Moving somewhere and not knowing the language is extremely common. My mother has been in the USA for 40 years and speaks very little English. She focuses on Spanish speaking neighborhoods and businesses.
Many of her friends have also been here decades and speak zero English too.
It's inconsiderate at best to expect people to speak your foreign language and get angry that people don't speak it. That's more of my point.
And even that, after gentrifying an area no longer welcoming non-english speaking people or treating them as second class is worse
I absolutely agree. I didn't make my point of learning the native language. I'm annoyed by native Spanish speaking immigrants purposefully not learning English while living in the USA for decades.
It seems it also happens with Americans that migrate to other countries.
Canadian here. I'll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.
Those who voted for Trump or didn't vote at all can die in a ditch.
Deleted by moderator
Ok dude, I don't have time to deal with your mental illness.
Thank you for that. For me, if I make a big move, especially out of country, I gotta go somewhere warm. I live in the mountains of WV and last winter nearly ended my life, for real. I was just talking this through with a friend- is it better to flee or stand our ground against the fascists?
The Netherlands probably, but with the massive grain of salt that I suspect that choosing a "ideal place to live" without actually having been to that place is likely to result in a skewed idea of what a place is truly like, and as I've never been outside the United States I have that issue when thinking about any other country. I also doubt they or anywhere else that might make my list of ideal places would want me, seeing as I'm just some random factory worker without any especially rare skill.
To me The Netherlands is just weed, bikes, trains, and canals. Sounds great.
I'm also fairly sure it's not going to be as great as it sounds. And the language will probably be annoying and not very useful elsewhere.
[email protected] Netherlands also has a xenophobia problem. It's not as progressive as people think, at least not anymore.
That being said, it's not a bad country. Also one of the easiest EU countries for Americans to immigrate to.
What makes it easy?
[email protected] well, easy is relative, but it's this treaty: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DAFT
As a Canadian, it appears to me that most of the Americans who want to move here are doing so because they like and support the way that Canada is currently functioning, and that's fine by me.
Immigrants who want the country to change for them are problematic. I almost think that first generation immigrants shouldn't get to vote, it should be a gift to their children rather than themselves. That shouldn't even need the child to be born in Canada, I'd actually be fine with anyone who goes through at least half their primary education (so let's say grade 7 or younger) here being included if they moved here with their parents when they were younger.
i think if i immigrated to Canada I'd fight for First Nations rights and want it to change in favor of that
Why would you assume that every single (non American) immigrant that comes here would want to change the way Canada is run? Considering the vast majority come here because they like the way it's run. This is such a wild take.
Besides, the politics of this country were built on genocide and do not reflect the values of the land's original caretakers that were here for tens of thousands of years. But I guess those first immigrants were correct in changing the way things are run here and so we should be upholding their values and their values only??
I hate the original people argument. There is no land on this earth that wasn't conquered multiple times. Even the first nations in North America warred against each other and took land from each other many times before the Europeans showed up. It wasn't a giant happy campfire singalong for 10,000 years.
Okay, but given your original comment that the people who "are already here" (eg. Canadian citizens) should be the only ones to vote, you do seem to be lending weight to the idea that people who were already here should be making the decisions.
Do you think that the first immigrants (settlers) to come here from England and France should also not have been allowed to decide on how the country was run? Or is it only new immigrants that shouldn't be allowed a voice in government? What's the cutoff?
I think they took the land, just like everyone else has been taking land for all of human history, and applying modern government concepts to something that happened a few hundred years ago is stupid.
We can try to prevent future injustices, we can fix wrongs that occurred in the lifetimes of people who are alive (like reparations for residential schools) but trying to go back and change things for anything done prior to anyone alive existing is stupid.
So the cutoff is "is anyone still alive that it directly happened to" and descendents do not count.
I wish I'd married a Canadian in 2004 when the getting was good, haha.
I even speak some French.
I went to Norway. Big recommend. That said, I refuse to call myself an expat or use the term expatriate. I am an immigrant. I think it is weird that white westerners get a special word and everybody else are filthy immigrants.
It's semantics but the difference between expat and immigrants is an expat intends to return to their home country some day, where an immigrant does not.
it's racism
if a westerner works with plans to return they are called expat, if it's a non western, they are called migrants labour or foreign workers and are treated like shit.
they dont like to be called immigrants, because then they would have to be labeled like the "brown people" they say have hawking over.
Yes, but connotatively it is just a marker of privilege. Especially here, since what we’re talking about is immigration, not temporary work.
To me expat always referred to people that only stay temporarily, mostly sent abroad by the company they work at. As opposed to a migrant that is meaning to stay permanently (and eventually gains citizenship).
TIL the definition differs regionally (see wiki) and mostly not as I thought it was.
Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.
I feel like if CA were to leave the US it would join Mexico, not Canada
Rejoin
fuck no lol joining mexico is submitting yourself to the rule of cartels. Theyre super corrupt.
Mexico == cartels????!?!!!?!??
the cartels hold massive influence over the govt, straight up killing their legislators in significant numbers at times.
There is serious violence, but CA has law enforcement in place with experience dealing with the Cartels. The power they weild in Mexican Government would be outweighed by the 30% increase in population and the doubling of the size of the Mexican Economy.
Of course the violence that would be required to result in CA leaving the union might result in destruction of that economy. Hard to say.
It would be a dream if CANZUK happened, then it was joined by California and Cascadia. We could call it CACACANZUK.
That said, you would already be a powerful nation without joining anyone else. Don't wait for us to get organised.
Here in Canada we're trying to catch America's brain drain. We especially need doctors quite desperately.
How's the demand for nurses? I'll be finishing up nursing school in less than a year! :D
Or support staff? I'm a surgical tech now, and some of my coworkers (other techs, schedulers - bottom of the medical food chain, but still with specialty experience) feel trapped here by their lack of higher education.
Nurses and caretaker staff "Pflege" are needed here in Germany too, but not sure how viable the pay is.
Depends. I know some nirses that work as "OP Schwestern" and they make good money.
But you can not compare a german Krankenpflegerin/Krankenpfleger with an US Nurse.
Afaik pay isn't that bad, it's working conditions that suck.
Check out bchealthcareers.ca for an example of what is being done to encourage medical professionals to make the move to Canada. This site is B.C. specific but it includes doctors, nurses, and allied health professions.
As a member of the CAF, if the US Armed Forces are getting rid of LGBTQ folks, I would be proud to welcome them as my comrades in arms.
Canadian Air Force?
Canada is certainly on my list of hopeful places.
Not quite. CAF is Canadian Armed Forces. The Air Force, specifically is the RCAF.
Thanks
Honestly lots of Western Europe, but personally: Iceland, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
Objectively places like Spain, Portugal, Malta, etc. would work.
I have no delusions of ever making it as an immigrant in any of these countries. You need a lot of money.
Or have a MD with a specialist or a scientist with a in demand field that is. But I suspect doctorate levels people are quite far and few between, which is why Europe is even entertaining them. They don't want BS, or MS holders there's too many of them and they are the ones in the most need for a career or jobs, because usa have very low prospects, even before trumps attack on stem funding.
No, you need to find some job and rent a room
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries. Without that right, it would be a different story
Nope. Absolutely none of those appear to allow working with just a US passport.
... Because I think it is.
But, to be fair, I only did a little searching. If you have a reference - like a page from the gov of Denmark saying "Yanks are cool: come in and get to work" - I'd love to be proved wrong. My nephew needs to see the world, and working is how it's done.
Yeah, I also checked and I was wrong. Not needing an entry visa is nice, but in order to work legally, one needs to find a job before (or there are talent pathways in some countries, but they would work for most other countries).
I am just one of the "non-EU" (and non-US of that matters) people, whom Denmark doesn't like to have, but I'm still living there waiting for my perm residence.
It's always easier to think: "aah, other people have it better!" :)
No you don't, you need a visa to be able to work here, depending on your area of expertise companies might sponsor your visa.
I suspect most of the fields are stem or at least niche
Yes, from some experience even on those fields you sort of need to proof that you tried to find someone in your own country and couldn't find one.
Sure, but finding a job and housing in most of the places I listed is quite challenging, often even for citizens of those countries, but especially immigrants.
Checked and found that US citizens don't have inherent right to work in EU - it's only easier to travel, not to settle down.
And speaking of renting - it really depends. If we're talking about Copenhagen, it is expensive, the market is broken (thanks AirBnb), and it's really hard and expensive to move in. I burned through my savings and owed some money to my employer before I could invite the rest of my family into a freshly-rented apartment. But if we're talking about "a bed under a roof", it's super easy to find a room on FB Marketplace, and live with a couple of other internationals.
So if it's just about "getting out of US" (crazy, I never thought it would be a thing, I'm sorry for them), then finding work is a must, but in a big city you usually can find something. It's only hard to find something nice and permanent
yes, permanent employment that allows you to stay in the country is a must. As a trans person in the US, it's been difficult to know whether to give up my career and whole life for basically constant instability and risk living as an immigrant in another country, especially when trans rights are getting stripped everywhere else too. Getting trans healthcare in Europe is not always such a breeze even for citizens.
Still, I appreciate your optimism and willingness to see the possibilities- that's important to know.
Denmark is fine for trans - nobody cares who you are, in a way that you have the same rights.
right, but when comparing my chances of economic survival, somewhere like Prague seems even more likely to work than Denmark just from a job market competition perspective, and Prague seems equally "idgaf" in attitude towards trans people (not that this kind of tolerance is the same as acceptance, non-discrimination, or integration)
That is not as easy as it sounds, it would be the same situation for immigrants going to the USA as they would if they try any European country
Americans would do anything to not call a general strike.
Get it organized. I'll show up. Show us poor stupid lazy americans how easy it is to hold an extended general strike to effect a national change. I'm all in on it. Let's fucking go everyone! This armchair analyst knows the way!
A birthstrike would be much easier to pull off than a general (labor) strike. Bills don't stop just because you stopped working, and labor strikes require a high degree of coordination. It's a significant risk for those going on strike.
In contrast, a birthstrike does not hurt your immediate situation, and actually likely helps it by preventing an increase in financial burden. Additionally, it requires no real degree of coordination. It can start small and pick up steam as more people jump onboard.
We've been in a pseudo-birth strike for decades, kids have been increasingly expensive as real wages dropped. The only thing it's gotten us is regressive assaults on reproductive rights.
Surely it takes a long time and Trump will be dead our out of office before any difference can be seen?
Hypothetically, you could start seeing results in as little as 9 months if people coordinated and actually took it seriously. Even without any sort of concerted effort, I wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. sees a drop in birth rates in 2026 as large numbers of people independently (i.e. without coordination) say "no thanks!"
Part of the point of birthstriking is that even if the effort ultimately doesn't work, you've still succeeded in protecting your descendants from whatever thing you are striking against. For example, I don't think we can stop climate change at this point. But even if it doesn't save the environment, there is value choosing to not create new victims.
Are the results anything that would cause any pressure for change though?
Seems like you would want a lot of organisation too or its just a few people and maybe a 0.1% drop in the fertility rate.
Won't know until we try it 😃
Ideally yes, but even on a personal level the second paragraph ("Part of the point of birthstriking...") still applies even if no one else joins in. This is in contrast to a labor strike that has no benefit to you (and is actively detrimental) if you try it without the backing of a large group of other people joining in.
It is easier to coordinate a birthstrike than a labor strike because it can be done incrementally. A labor strike absolutely depends on a significant % of the population engaging all at once. Otherwise it fails. A birthstrike can have participation build up over time since it doesn't adversely affect your day-to-day life the way that a labor strike does, thus it can be held indefinitely. In contrast to working, reproduction is completely optional on an individual level.
But yes, it absolutely stretches out the time frame. Labor strikes produce results in days or weeks. Now we are looking at months and years.
I pursued an engineering BSc with the desire to emigrate but got distracted by the success of SpaceX and wooed by the challenge of Mars colonization. Then the US health insurance industry got in the way, I failed out and didn't make it back until COVID. I graduated in 2022 with the first university degree in my family but was crippled by student loan debt and unable to save to leave. Was finally able to escape the rural Midwest a year ago and made it to a city with plenty of aerospace companies right as everyone stopped hiring. The cherry on top was the CEO of the company whose engineering feats initially inspired me throwing fascist salutes at inauguration.
Odd jobs and parental support have mostly kept me afloat, but they can't help forever and I am a few months out from having to move back. The military industrial complex slid into my DMs recently with the offer of a fat paycheck and loaded resume in exchange for my ethics and morals. They even dangled a carrot of potential transfer to a NASA climate science project after the contract is up, but I'll be surprised if it's still funded by then. Frankly, I broke down when I realized the project I'd be working on.
I'll hear back about the position early next week and I'm desperately hoping it's a no and I'm back to the drawing board, but if it's a yes I'll be starting in a couple weeks. The BBB will very likely lead to losing the best, most effective and enabling healthcare I've received so far, and the salary would cover the insurance plan I'd need to maintain that care. Its a short contract and the salary would also enable me to save enough to emigrate but I already feel compromised. I've dreamed of contributing to space exploration and am instead being bullied into contributing to it's militarization by a country I've opposed for the entirety of my adult life.
I've looked into joining the Ukrainian Foreign Legionnaires and would much rather contribute to European defense against Russia, but I honestly just want to pursue an MSc or even PhD and turn my brain towards mitigating and adapting to climate change. I've worked so fucking hard, dreamed so fucking big and bounced back from defeat time and time again for this? Fuck.
Tl;dr: Masters/PhD in Sweden or Germany but barring that I'll work for any European defense company that will take an american immigrant.
I have BS in stems but don't have the qualifications for grad school unfortunately, another issue is I had a friend prior to pandemic that had a masters in the same degree, but the jobs were really lacking if you don't have significant lab experience
Why is the difference between immigrant and ex patriot?
Ex patriot is a whitewashing term for immigrant. Because immigrants has a negative connotation so whites had to make up another term so they could differentiate themselves.
That is what I figured.
“Expatriate”
Buddy I already have. ✌️
If you migrate from a rich country to a poor country you’re an expat.
If you migrate from a poor country to a rich country you’re an immigrant and you’re both lazy and taking all the jobs and welfare and healthcare.
It's relative to the country - you expatriate from your country of origin, and become an immigrant to a new host country.
Expatriate and emigrate are more or less synonyms.
That's what I became when the Nazis took over as a result of being overwhelming popular to US voters. Turns out it's not just a handful of powerful fuckers taking advantage of the rest of us: 'we the people' are, for the most part, just evil.
No, the difference is whether you are just residing outside your home country or actually immigrating to the new country. It is the difference between a vacation and moving somewhere. It is more along the lines of external patriot than former patriot.
Someone who still sees themselves as a citizen of their home country and just happens to live elsewhere is an expat. So an American living in Mexico is an expat, no matter what their length of stay is. If they immigrate, they are moving permanently and they see themselves as a part of the new country, either by seeking citizenship or claiming that as their 'home' as part of their identity.
silly responses here... the actual difference is permanence. immigration is relocating your life. expatriating is an extended vacation. it has the white guy connotation because white people usually stay temporarily, they dont immigrate for life.
My post was a bit tongue in cheek. I was pretty sure it was just peops not wanting to say immigrant even if they are staying forever.
maybe! there is probably also some joy in saying that you're leaving the old world behind
Ex patriots move to work in a foreign country for a limited period, with the intention of returning to their home country. Typically these are white collar workers who move between their employer's offices for 2-3 years and then return home.
Immigrants move with the intention of staying in the new country long term.
However, with the negative connotations attached to immigrants, some people - primarily white, highly educated people - incorrectly refer to themselves as expats, even once it's clear they intend to stay.
I’ve seen a lot of online hate for expats
Germany here, only the smart once please. Dont need the idiots. Already got enought here
I was smart once! OMW!!
Germany has been on my list of places to flee to if the fascists here start rounding up LGBT folks. I have lapsed fluency from when I lived there 30 years ago but I am confident it would come back quickly. The problem is that my husband doesn't speak any German at all and I think it would be a culture shock for him.
Without C1 german you will most likely not find a job anywhere. Having that experience myself with my british boyfriend. Despite diploma, they dont land a job
Costa Rica 🇨🇷
Our country attracts a lot of American tourists, they mainly go to the beaches and national parks but I have seen them on my city sometimes
I'm fine with it, I highly suggest you learn Spanish since we are a Spanish-speaking country, and you can only see English on the tourist areas
Also if you want to become a citizen you need to do some sort of exam that for most foreign people is hard. Just so y'all know
I love your country and am considering moving there. I just got divorced and I'm going to do a big shake up of my life. If I don't get this job in Texas and I can get my balls in order, I might just do it. Ticos son la gente muy generoso y amistosa. Tengo solo un poco español pero vivir en Costa Rica? Yo estudio muy rapido en la pais.
Hi, I am an American and will be visiting your country very soon! I've never been outside of the US and know very little Spanish. I'm going with a family member who is getting dental work done and well be in San Jose. We're very excited for the trip, do you have any tips for first timers?
Thanks for visiting us!
Regarding San Jose, unfortunately there isn't a lot to do there, the most you can do is visit museums (National Museum, Pre-Columbian Gold Museum, Jade Museum, alongside others, visit some volcanoes (Poás, Irazu, and maybe the Turrialba Volcano), visit old buildings (Plaza de la Cultura as an example), and that's pretty much it
I think you would like places like Monteverde or La Fortuna.
Regarding money exchange, do it on Banco Nacional (BN) or in Banco de Costa Rica (BCR). If you do it on the airport or in any other place you might be scammed
Use Uber, if you use taxis they will know you're a tourist and will charge you the double
Avoid Jaco, it's kind of dangerous
And finally, be careful with prices on the airport, a lot of things are overpriced such as this
I appreciate the response. We'll try our best to get out to some of the other towns, but our main focus is the dental work. I appreciate all of the tips and suggestions!
Don't plan to be in San Jose. Doesn't have more to give for tourist than maybe a day of museums.
Also even with a gringo accent, you'll fit right in /jk
You might be surprised. I love this country so much.
I like it too. Just making some fun on their Spanish.
It makes it easier to learn! When I talk to most Mexicans they speak so fast and have so much slang it's hard to learn or even understand for me.
Learning Spanish thoroughly would be difficult, but I think I could get to conversational with a couple months effort. Taking tests is my one great talent. Tests don't scare me. History? Government? Society? I will learn that in a week if I can read the material I will be tested on.
Finding work scares me. I can't live outside the country for my current job.
Brit here. I'd be happy to accept Dem voters. Fart voters can stay at home and eat their own dogshit. Non-voters too; they knew exactly who FartV1 was and I am genuinely surprised Harris couldn't get in simply on "I'm not Fart". They really thought she'd be worse?
And for those who get over here by lying about their vote; they incriminate themselves, and will be deported the moment we discover the truth.
For the love of God, please stop spreading this mode of thinking. Elections are won by enthusiasm, not an intellectual weighing of the pros and cons of each. This is the model Democrats have used for decades that got us here. Being the lesser evil is not a solid campaign strategy. The greater evil will always get more attention, and therefore enthusiasm.
I don't think this is an exclusively American thing. Did Brits really think brexit was a good idea?
evidence came out it was also rigged, and it has been for the last 2 times too. she wouldve won regardless, but the problem is DNc dint call out to be investigated for fear of being called riggers themselves. and waited when it was almost a year to finally say, we think its rigged?
It wasn't rigged. Even if it were rigged, it should never have been close enough to be rigged, but it wasn't rigged. If the DNC waited to say it was rigged, they are still waiting because they haven't said they think it's rigged, but their not waiting, because it wasn't rigged.
Non-American here. All Americans, except MAGA muricans, are welcome.
Probably Finland, or another Nordic country. Idk, I just like the cold and the woods and figure those oughtta fit the bill
Don't come to Ireland. I've lived in the US for nearly two decades, made lots of friends and even helped some to immigrate here. The harsh reality is, however, that we're going through a really bad housing crisis, with our own homeless numbers growing every month, and house prices and rents exploding (a recent statistic showed that our growth in rents is four times the EU average). So, please, for our sake and yours, try a different country.
the country i was to go to is the imagined America of our ancestors like Langston Hughes, the land of equality and opportunity and liberation and diversity, full of immigrants working for their own and their shared futures
Is there a sign-up sheet?
When America sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems and they’re bringing those problems with them. They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7764650-when-mexico-sends-its-people-they-re-not-sending-their-best
The funny thing is, the worst of us love the US and what it's becoming. Smart, decent people are the ones talking about leaving.
Morocco or Jordan. Been trying to learn Arabic for a few years and would love to be forced to take it more seriously. Mostly can just read the letters. They are relatively safe countries that are in areas of the world I have studied extensively. Also means closer travel to many of the old cities I want to visit.
Jordan is a great country. Lived there for awhile. The people were great. Israel being so close isn't fun though. Morocco would be a safer bet imo.
That is true, but I would really like to live in the region and Jordan is probably the safest bet. Otherwise Morocco is the smart choice for arabic speaking nation tolerant of Americans with a reasonable margin for safety. I won't be leaving anytime soon either way, this is more of a dream living abroad answer for right now. I intend to vote, protest and be a pain in the ass until they drive me out.
Jordan is definitely the safest of the ones in the direct area assuming things haven't dramatically shifted since I was there.
I'm thinking either Finland or Norway. But the only way I could ever emigrate to either of those countries would be as an asylum seeker. I don't make enough money, nor do I have any skills they want. I've got plenty of skills...just not any that are in 'high demand'.
Right now phds are usually the only one sought after for immigration, got a BS or MS in a stem, good luck with that. I have one of these, and many people can't get a PhD for multiple reasons.
You could marry, at least for Norway.
Few mail order brides available though, so you’d have to make an effort finding someone who likes you back
Stand and fight, you cowards.
How are we supposed to fight a nearly endless supply of morons along with overthrowing three branches of our government?
Have you not been screaming about guns for as long as anyone alive can remember?
the morons were the ones also screaming about guns
And that stops the non-morons from using the guns to end the morons rule how?
I really don't want people to be in situations where they need guns. And liking to use a gun is a sign of a moron - why should nice people be like them?
You're condemning a lot of innocent people to die.
Cut the histrionics. Americans aren't being massacred. They are only asked to go to some minor inconvenience to uphold their country's democracy.
The distance between Chicago and Las Vegas is greater than between Berlin and the Russian front line in Ukraine. Are Germans supposed to feel pity for you poor darlings?
Only an idiot would stay and do that, if there are better opportunities out there. Furthermore intellectuals, scientists are the first to flee a fascist states, as they are the target of persecution first and foremost. Have you not been to history classes? Immigrants came here to flee from persecution form those countries, that you can get straight up murdered or jailed even before you pull a trigget
What on Earth do you think is going to happen if we stand up to a militarized police force larger than the world has ever seen? You're telling us to "stand up and fight" against a 30-trillion dollar army of bloodthirsty armed pseudo-soldiers.
I don't want or expect your pity. But I would like you to try for empathy, if you can muster it. Good luck.
"Stay in Germany and fight, your cowards"
-@[email protected] said to Jewish Refugees in 1933
You're ignorant of history and that's a problem.
There were fewer than 500,000 jewish Germans in 1933. That's less than 1% of the population.
The millions who were murdered were mainly citizens of Poland and the Soviet Union. If the nations of Western Europe had prepared themselves better for war and fought with more tenacity, millions would have lived.
The absolute disaster that the Wehrmacht inflicted on the Soviet Union is largely the result of Stalin's defects. Dictators are bad; an obvious lesson. A less obvious lesson comes from the Generalplan Ost. The Nazis wanted to murder much of the population east of Germany; Poles, Czecks, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians, and others. Many tens of millions of individual human beings were to be killed, mainly through hunger. Then the territory was to be settled by Germans, That's the whole Lebensraum thing.
Where should all these people have gone?
That's why the Ukrainians today don't have a choice. Putin wants to eradicate the ukrainian ethnicity. We know that. We don't know how many people he is willing to murder; to physically eradicate. Would you take the chance?
In 1939, immediately before WW2 and the holocaust, the MS St. Louis sailed with 900 jewish refugees from Nazi Germany to Cuba. But Cuba refused to take them in, as it had just hardened its laws. The ship sailed to Canada and the USA, but they, too, refused. Something, something, race.
Eventually, the UK, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands took pity on these people and gave them shelter. Obviously, many of those on the continent were murdered in the Holocaust.
Where do you think 65 million US Latinos will go? They live in the US and they will die in the US. One way or the other.
I used to say this a lot, but the longer i live, the more i understand that "stand and fight" requires a lot of will power, especially when you have to rub shoulder with the jarring issue daily, the very issue that makes you want to leave, and the authority doesn't give a single fuck about it after countless report. In any case, it's the lost of faith toward the fellow countrymen, not the administration.
Yes. It's easier said than done. I often find myself thinking, I could do more to make my country better.
But I am just too irritated by the selfishness and privilege on display. Just relocating to a nicer country is an option that 99% do not have. You need to be young and well-educated, or be relatively wealthy. Otherwise, a rich country will simply not have you.
At the same time, those who can just pick up and leave are the same people who are most able to change things for the better. Americans are not risking their lives by speaking up. The rule of law is mostly being followed. Democratically elected representatives hold power.
Freedom and life can be taken from us, but never honor. -Otto Wels, 1933, in the final session of the elected german parliament.
Portugal, though I doubt they want Americans any more.
Sorry to be an idiot but what recently happened to make Portugal not want Americans?
Not OP, but probably because they've had a lot of immigration in recent years and it's made their housing situation worse.
Spain is in the same boat
That is it.
I'm very concerned that people who choose to go to France will just find themselves in the exact same situation along with the rest of us not too long from now. I'd advise looking for a country with a lower fascism approval rating...
We do have lots of cheese, though, if it's any consolation.
Germany. I might be able to claim ancestry rights. Ironic that my great grandmother fled fascism in Germany but I'd flee America to return to the motherland.
That’s not how it works hun. You’d have to go through the regular process of becoming a citizen by immigration.
Ancestry rights≠automatic citizenship and the person you're responding to didn't make that claim.
Yeah, it's just one of the avenues. I could also just get a job there as I'm in tech, I'm not quite fluent in German yet especially when it comes to tech jargon. But I'm getting there.
Depending on your field tech jargon is probably all english even in Germany.
It is according to some Dutch friends in the Netherlands.
Software engineering. There is a lot of cognates yeah
Cognates? Mate, unless you work for some company stuck in the 60s the entire tech jargon is english, it's the exact same words.
You shouldn't say that "motherland" phrase so loud. Nobody cares, but it makes you one of those Muricans we try to avoid.
Nobody here cares about ancestry like americans do.
Your great grandma came from Germany. Was your grandma a german citizen? Was your mother a german citizen? No? You are not intitled to german citizenship anymore. You're a full blown american with a great grandma that migrated to the USA. I'm sorry to blow your bubble, that ship has left the harbor.
Ok sure. Sorry I didn't know 'motherland' was a negative phrase in Germany. I will not use it. My grandmother and mother were not German just great grandmother.
Yeah... those fucking moronic assholes that forced your great grandmother to flee to survive loved expressions like Lebensraum, Rasserein, Bluterbe, Mutterland, Vaterland or Unwertes Leben...
And we germans laugh about that Murican obsession with "I'm German, because my great grandmother was..." you can get german citizenship ius sanguinis (by blood ... [as direct desendent])" and since 2000 also by ius soli (by place of birth). There's a joke about "Russlanddeutsche" (Russian germans) that goes like: Ivan now has german passport, he could give proof his great great great great grandfather had a german shepherd back in 1792.
Those people "coming back" are the decendents of people migrating to russia back in 1764 on their own free will.
So, my personal tip. Just say you want to leave the US because that country is heading for a fall. I can speak a bit german because my great grandma was from [insert city/village/state here]. I hope this will help me learn to speak fluently fast.
And you're welcome.
Thanks for the constructive feedback instead of just assuming I was a bad person. I appreciate it.
My pleasure.
You and grew up in completely different cultures, even if both are considered "western". We both are a product of how we grew up.
If someone would accuse me, as a german, of stareing, I'd be baffled, because for us it is normal not to look away after a split second. We also like to say things directly and don't like waste time with small talk and chit chat in some situations. Many think this makes us cold.
And... you obviously know about the darkest parts of german history. I was born 24 years after the third Reich was defeated and 80 years later this time still haunts this country. That's why we sometimes react a bit "twitchy" if people use expressions that either were used by the fascists or sound like they would have liked them. I hope you understand my first reaction even better now.
Yes I know how sensitive a subject it is.
Also, I too do not like small talk or mindless chit chat. If I talk, it is is in depth and with a passion about the topic.
Narnia
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Tbf most migrants are either damn smart, hard workers or damn smart hard workers.
So, for a good future we should welcome them!
Honestly the Netherlands seems pretty great.
How's the food?
Dutch food is pretty bland, but plenty of Indonesian, Moroccan and Turkish immigrants to add some desperately needed variety.
A great thing about my area of the U.S is it's very diverse in the food scene and idk how to find something like this elsewhere in other countries.
I'm Canadian. I don't mind accepting American refugees as long as we also learn to accept refugees from other countries and value them all equally, but our current government isn't doing that.
New Zealand is quite lovely; I could afford it and I’m on the expedited list of specialties. Can’t leave the kids, though, so I’m stuck watching the ship go down.
If I could live in no country I’d be so happy. But the only place to do that is a desert in Africa and my natural habitat is temperate forests.
So I guess Canada.
GingTFO isn't actually a huge problem for Americans. I've looked into it and the only reason I'm still here is that my wife refuses to leave and I love her too much to leave her. Dozens of countries will give Americans residency, although citizenship is usually a lot more difficult and/or takes years. There is usually a minimum income requirement, but you don't have to be rich. I've seen it in the $1200-$2k/mo range in multiple places. Of course this has to be income you can still make while you're in the new country, not a US job you're going to give up. Makes it pretty sweet for "digital nomads" tho who can work remotely.
A few countries highly rated by expats are Costa Rica, Panama, Uruguay (esp good environment for LGBTQ+), and Thailand. Vietnam doesn't even have a visa limit - technically it's 3 or 5 years but all you have to do to reset it is go away for like 30 days. There are lots of others. If you want to get started google "Americans moving abroad", there are tons of helpful videos and articles.
Maybe Scotland. If they could fully separate from the dead weight down south.
Canada, I'm a citizen there as well
Korea is facing a huge population crisis in the not-so-distant future. They already have ties to the U.S., too.
Had to scroll too far to find Korea.
Been here since 2016. It can be tough finding a job at a not shitty company, but once you do, it's pretty sweet.
But if you're in your 20s and dating, be prepared for all the bullshit. It gets better in your 30s, though there are still customs you need to figure out.
Housing is expensive in Seoul, and real estate agents may scam you, so find a Korean friend.
Otherwise, it's great. People are nice to foreigners. Public transit in Seoul and most of the country is amazing. Everything is super convenient. You can get away without learning the language, but at least try to get to a basic level. The foreigner community is pretty cool. Healthcare is excellent. I love it here.
Dream? Hard to say since I've never been outside the US. Maybe Ireland?
Reality? Pretty much anywhere that I would have the opportunity to make a living.
Hey. If yanks get get to Canada, and get in, I'm sure we'd love to have ya.
There's a catch: if you're not fleeing persecution, you're gonna need a skill. It bumps up your score on the big calculation they do, and if you can keep doing the skilled work you may one day afford to live somewhere other than winnipeg.
Even though things aren't going as they should, I wouldn't be likely to leave. I don't agree with a lot of what's happening here, but there's no nation I know that supports more of my beliefs and lifestyle than the USA. Plus, my family, my friends, and my loved ones are all here. Leaving would mean losing them, and that's totally unacceptable.
Can you expand on your beliefs and lifestyle?
Not easily at the moment. I'll probably come back and give you some answers if I remember.
Canada, Iceland, New Zealand, or Germany, in no particular order. Then again, of those 4, I've only been to Canada.
I don’t want to start over. I’d rather die.
you're lucky you're not in love with an immigrant then
I’m latina and my husband is Latino. From what it looks like we’re all being arrested and questioned based on appearances alone. We’re all not lucky.
Dream country? Monaco, lol. But more realistically either Canada, Australia or New Zealand
I was going to say Italy but they seem to be going fash again so... north sentinel island?
North Sentinel Island is willing to welcome you with a gift of their finest bow and arrow show 🤗
(Serious tho, please don't disturb uncontacted tribes)
Unless you're some of those "good christians" trying to teach you their fairy tales with sword and flame...
I’ve lived in NYC for 20 years, I’d only give it up for Barcelona
Netherlands here. The 862.409 Americans that voted for a better country (Jill Stein voters) are more than welcome here. Also, those who face illegal prosecution and genuine threat from the government, ICE and police. The rest would just move our political compass further to the authoritarian side, dems or reps.
If I lived in a parlimentary democracy I would vote for the farthest left party I could find.
Fully agree. Americans have every chance and opportunity to not vote for geriatric maniacs. They only needed to look further than their TV screens, but they didn't.
And seeing at the down votes, and anticipating the mockery of saying that both dems and reps don't support the health, safety and prosperity for any but the rich and wealthy, I'll say this:
Stop parroting and start looking at how your precious democratic party treated its poor, its illegal, its downtrodden, its sick. You're a joke, kisses!
Also not always the best choice. Here in Germany the farthest left party is BSW and those are those that would crawl up Tsar Putin's ass in an instant, that basically think you should talk to the bully and he'll come to its senses and stops bullying others. So, the highest level of disillusion you can imagine. Even the green party has finally realised the only way to deal with bullies is NOT to "give in and be the better person".
I sympathise with anarchism so I wouldn't vote for marxists or a party that sucks up to dictators.
Jill stein is a putin hack much like RFK jr is, she only appears every 4 years to siphon dem voters, all her votes were republicans, she would have the worst people going to other countries,.
Appears to siphon dem voters <> All her votes were republican
The lazy foreigners don't do anything <> The foreigners are taking all our jobs
Please let me know how you figure that "all her votes were republicans", I'm very interested.
I think I’d like to move to Canada. However, I have no money, and do not have a degree or anything like that. I think the plant I work at has operations in Canada, so there might be the possibility of transferring there. Even if the opportunity presented itself, I refuse to leave my son, so I am stuck here.
I moved US -> CA, so AMA
My experience so far: I instantly made a bunch of friends and the locals seem happy to have me here. Many are curious about the US, many also understand what's going on. I don't experience the same level of elitism I'm used to back in the states as an immigrant (even after 2+ decades). There is also SIGNIFICANTLY less catcalling, I somehow get way more compliments??? Oh and did you know ketchup was actually supposed to taste good? (Hint: it's all the corn syrup)
Canada is a lovely country ❤️🇨🇦
In this thread: unimaginative white people mentioning popular European countries or places that will not welcome them due to restrictive and xenophobic immigration policies. Meanwhile I'll be content in Chile, Faroe Islands, Guam or Jordan.
Guam wouldn't even be leaving the US, unless you expect it to secede sometime in the immediate future and be successful at doing so. For that matter, if the question is "what would your dream place to immigrate be" rather than "what place do you think you would have a decent shot of being welcomed", why should people not mention popular places? If people didn't find them appealing, they wouldn't be popular in the first place.
I googled a bit, my best bet is Canada.
Large population of the Chinese diaspora, so I don't feel too much like a minority (I am Chinese American).
The other choice is Australia.
EU is great, but since the UK isn't in EU anymore, I'd have to chose a non-English country, meaning, I'd have to learn another language. My brain can't handle that. Already have 3 spoken and 2 written languages stuck in my head (mostly dormant, haven't used some those languages for a while), I think my brain will explode if I try to learn more. Population of the Chinese diaspora is too small. So I'd also feel alone, because like... Imagine living in a place where nobody looks like you. Like a Black American kid in the deep south of the US and all your classmates are white, that's how it feels basically. As for the UK, I wouldn't need to learn another language, but UK just had a xenophobic riot in 2024, doesn't seem too friendly in my opinion. If the UK was in EU, I could just pack up and to go another EU country if Shit Hits the Fan, its what I like about the EU, options. But too bad UK isn't in EU...
There is also Singapore, which has like over 70% ethnic Chinese, and the official languages include English and Mandarin, which I already know.
Not technically "dream countries", but the most realistic countries that would be livable for me. Because I doubt I can speak Norweigian or Finnish. (Even tho I would love those countries)
TLDR: As a Chinese American, Canada as first choice, Australia as second place. Then probably Sinapore.
(Sorry if I'm rambling, can't express it coherently since ICE raids are on my mind)
Edit: I would probably also say Taiwan as an option, well... other than the fact that they are constantly on the verge of getting invaded, and I am not fond of the CCP.
Singapore seems a smart choice. Seems like a great city from everyone I've met from there. The general English proficiency is excellent as well.
Whatever you do, avoid Europe. The anti-Asian racism in most of Europe is far more grave than it is in the Americas. and Australia, ok, you'll have more Chinese community, but it's probably the biggest cesspool of anti-Asian racism on the planet
You might also look into what Chinese populations are in South America. you might like it there.
Canada if possible. My family only speaks English, but willing to "do the thing" to fit in even if that's learning a new language.
I'd also be ok with UK, Australia, New Zealand.
last places would be Germany, Poland, Italy, Spain, Japan. I know living in these places would be an extreme challenge for my family so that's why they're bottom of my list.
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I always wanted to live in a country that was totally different from America when I was a kid. I thought either India, China, or Japan back then, but now I’m not sure I’d want to live in any of them right now.
I guess I could go to nearby countries that don’t have global headlines like them say like Bangladesh, Thailand, or Indonesia, but I don’t really know anything about them.
I think the smart option would be somewhere in Europe, but I kinda want to get away or at least take a break from “western” culture.
I guess I can’t name a dream country, but somewhere with a totally different culture. I’d also want it to have a bunch of ruins and historical sites to visit. I’ve never seen anything older than like 150 years in person.
Where do you live in America? The northeast has cities with things/buildings older than the birth of America (pre-1776) if you want to visit.
No where. I like America. What are my other options, realistically? Britain which just banned porn? Australia which banned Hentai? Canada, which is just America but cold and sky high housing costs?
Age-verification laws have spread throughout the states in the last two years. It ain’t going to get better.
What's stupid is I can get behind the idea, kids shouldn't be watching porn, but the way they're going about is just so stupid I can't defend it
Not surprising when you think Twitter is the least biased social media out there. Your stance on porn boils down to "think of the children 😩" and you think that's the end goal. You seem quite deserving of the US, so have at it.
Fair enough
Lots of them really
No they didn't, they just force age verification, which is also common in the USA. So you have the exact same "problem" there, but are missing the free healthcare, and other benefits from the UK in relation to the USA.
Yeah, Australia is weird, they also banned several games and similar stuff because they have a government that's very focused on moral problems, much like the right wing in the USA, so I don't think it will be long before the USA goes down this same rabbit hole of "won't somebody please think of the children" and bans the same things.
I don't even know how to reply to this, the fact that you think that a country that consistently picks the complete opposite policies from the USA is the same means you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. It's like if someone told you they don't want to stop eating deep fried chicken because salad is just the same thing except cold and more expensive.
The reality in Australia is nothing like what the world seems to think it is. The dumb laws are just performative actions by populist politicians. If I recall, the game bans were mostly because of one politician who made it his personal crusade.
Not much is actually enforced. Every time someone mentions one of these draconian Australian laws I have to check if it's actually real. I hear about it more from US media trying to paint us as some kind of dystopia, probably because of our gun laws.
We're not perfect though. We could be doing much better with progressive legislation, but I feel more free here than I ever have in the US.
I was trying to repatriate to Italy but they closed down the policy that would have let me return with my family.
Anywhere cold, with decent social services, good shipping, and people that leave me alone on the whole.
Ah, welcome to the Nordics!
Hard as fuck to get in, or so I’ve heard.
The shipping might be slower than you’re used to, but we check of on the rest.
See you soon?
I wish I could see you all soon. I've looked at it a lot over the years, not just when shit got bad here. And would honestly I would love to live there. Looked hard into Norway for awhile and talked to Norwegians in their subreddit, but the hardest part would be getting a job as a foreigner as it sounds like jobs are very heavily weighted towards "who you know". Since I'm not the most socially invested person and a foreigner, the Norwegians I talked with made it sound like it'd be problematic.
Yeah it's tricky, but not impossible. We are small, but not small enough for most jobs to be handed out based on nepotism.
I'd say the main hurdle is language. If you don't speak Norwegian, or another Scandinavian language, the selection of jobs shrinks considerably.
If you actually wish to move, I'd recommend looking for jobs on Finn.no and apply when something relevant pops up.
Being non-socially invested doesn't disqualify you.
Let me know if you're serious and want some help.
I have some other constraints at the moment that mean I'm probably a year out or more, but that's perhaps not a bad timeline to work with.
I am definitely limited by my lack of language skills. I have some german but that won't be much help further north.
I'll start looking on finn.no, do you know of any other sites I should use? Know any good language programs outside of the standard suggestions like duolingo?
Finn is the dominant one by a longshot.
A few positions could be posted on nav.no (government social security firm), but it's not really worth checking.
For language, if you're serious, I'd probably find a Discord channel for people wanting to learn. It's literally how I met the missus.
We all learn differently, but finding someone with a shared hobby that you can talk to while doing said hobby is effective. We had gaming in common.
Talking is, at least for me, a million times better than reading and studying.
Best of luck to you, and let me know if you have any questions.
And: it's not utopia here. We have issues as well. Just make sure you remove any rose tinted glasses before comitting countless hours.
I'm aware that nowhere is utopia. 😊 But it's not a minority-captured christofascist looney bin run by a geriatric dementia patient hell bent on destroying every opportunity for me and my family, like the usa so I can deal with other potential downsides. Lol
Thanks for the discord suggestion and advice, I appreciate it.
Any country where healthcare and higher education are considered human rights and not commodities will work for me.
If I wasn’t locked into this contract with my house I would be applying for work programs in New Zealand on my way to citizenship. When Trump was elected, the first thought that went through my head was, I don’t like winter, so Canada and the Nordics are out. Europe is 0-2 for getting destroyed in World Wars and WW3 is heating up. Africa has its own problems right now, as does South America, and regardless of where you go in Asia it’s not looking good for WW3. So options were Central America or Oceania. I know passable amounts of Spanish, and lived in Central America for a while and I would definitely be OK going back. But if I’m going to move somewhere might as well be somewhere new.
Someplace in the Anglosphere. I don't think I have it in me to learn a new language just to get by in day-to-day life. New Zealand, maybe.
Unfortunately, my immensely low income and numerous medical issues means that I'm not much of a candidate for emigration.
Also, ideally, a region without a lot of insects.
In any case, though, I'm probably going to die here, stubbornly. If these fascist fucks want me dead bad enough to see it through, I'm at least going to inconvenience them with getting rid of my body.
I'm an antinationalist with regards to usa. No
I'd be in Aukland now if I hadn't met my partner between deciding in 2021 and the election. She is a refugee and can't leave or she'll lose status. She is a political enemy of her government for advocating for democracy there. Did a phone interview and everything.
I would go back to Japan if my partner could/would learn the language.
Vietnam? Cuba? Hard to say, never having been out of the Continental USA.
I moved to Japan back in 2015. If I had it to do over, I might do Finland or Norway.
No need for muricans here
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I’m taking Spanish right now, both to better support immigrants in my community and to possibly move to Oaxaca Mexico if necessary. I plan to visit a few more times in the next year or so, just to figure out things just in case. I don’t feel like it’s the time to leave yet - I have a pretty good intuitive sense for disasters.
I LEANfired at 44 so I can’t really go somewhere that requires a work visa, and I’m not rich enough for a golden ticket in many places.
France is actually a possibility because I’m fluent, I lived there briefly- but I prefer the art and culture in Mexico, and generally people are easier to get to know.
I’m also visiting my friends off grid in Montana, and may discuss with them rolling my tiny house up there someday. I know there’s a lot of crazy people up there but where they are is a bit away from that.
My grandfather was Finnish, so that seems like a natural choice, but I would probably say Uruguay because it seems like a nice relatively affordable place and I could improve my (terrible) Spanish (i don't speak any Finnish).
Probably Romania, cheap cost of living while still being in Europe and being a part of NATO.
Saint Kitts and Nevis. Economy sucks, internet too, but you can't beat the view.
Canada. I live on the border, been there more times than I can count, and it would be the easiest to move to.
What part?
Kenya. I have friends there, which would help.
I’d definitely be the obvious foreigner, given that I’m pale and ginger, but that’s worked in my favor when traveling before.
I’m also supposing here that there wouldn’t be quite so many other American expats to compete with.
Chinese. I... don't think China accepts immigration, so I don't think it matters what most Chinese people think of Americans. Not that I think China would be an ideal expat destination for most Americans anyway... China also have most of the problems US have. Maybe for some highly accomplished scientists/business executives who can be offered a job (since China is spending a lot on R&D), but that's probably it
As someone who lived in the US for a long time and actively considered this? * Northern European countries are nice for anyone who doesn't mind living like a vampire; there is basically no sunlight in winter, but they are probably the best in terms of providing what an "average person" wants and needs * There are countries here and there which have low cost-of-living and high quality-of-life, assuming that I only want to be an "expat" who wants to live temporarily and am not trying to find work there (remote work, savings, or something else). My parents insist that Thailand fits this category; I believe several South American countries fit the bill as well * Realistically, if I actually want to immigrate, it will probably end up being one of the random EU countries, whichever I can get in via ancestry or find a job in...
I'm an American often in China for my job. If you want to be in a tier 1 city rent relative to income is insane even compared to Canada (and by extension the US). If you're a foreigner in a skilled profession who can secure a job there, this would be pretty easily avoided as your salary will typically be far above average and housing likely even paid for by the company sponsoring you.
The downside is that the expectation of workers and office culture is also drastically different than in the US. Your savings also won't go as far should you ever choose to leave. Mandarin is pretty difficult to learn, particularly for reading characters which is more or less essential to get around New areas efficiently.
People are surprisingly quite nice to foreigners. I've never had a problem with the complete lack of privacy personally, since everything in public is tracked/recorded crime is incredibly low. But I have the ability to make that choice while others don't, so I can get why it's an issue for some. It's a weird contrast from the US where the police are most certainly not your friend and the government is too disorganized to help even when they have all the relevant information. The urbanism is everything you'd imagine it to be, even in tier 2/3 cities it's incredibly easy to get around without a car. If I weren't tied to my family in the US I'd likely consider spending a few years working there while still young. But even then it would be hard to justify such a huge pay cut from US engineering salaries.
Finland first, New Zealand second. Both have gun rights. Finland has a lot of empty space in the north, and Finns are, in general, not super interested in being highly social, despite historically having pretty solid social safety nets (although I hear the right is rising there, and that may not last). The largest barrier is that Suomi is a very difficult language to learn.
Somewhere it only snows a handful of times a year. I'm not about the cold life.
Probably Argentina. Maybe SE Asia. But honestly, where ever all my friends decided to move, since we'd prob drag each other to one place or another. Although most likely scenario there is that we'd become a travelling commune with no official country. If the US actually collapsed, I'd lose a ton of money and would need to find some kind of work, so I'd hit up my connections and probably get a remote software gig. Idk, I'll figure it out when it happens.
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France because I’m A2 in French, Spain if I could pick anywhere.
Finland or Norway.
at least currently these countries are mostly looking for PHDs, MDs in specialities, some engineers, but degrees in stem lower than that isnt encouraged at all. because they know there will be a job waiting the moment they set foot in those countries, but its unwise for someone with a undergraduate/MS since you would have to do much more.
i knew a white guy in my CC that "expatriated" to mexico after my semester with him in a stem class this was a long time ago, kinda wierd he even bother going to school in the CC anyways in the USA, he was gone the next semester.